Should adding an amp to the fronts effect the surrounds?

Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
Last night I hooked my zone 2 amp, Audiosource Amp One/a, to my center channel in monobrigded. It's an M&K LCR851 4 Ohm speaker & a Denon 2805 receiver. I rematched the levels (only the center changed) and had to drop the center 8.5 dbs to be even with the other fronts.

One of the first things I noticed is that I seemed to get more sound from the surround speakers. I also noticed a slight improvement in the background noise from the movie (Mystery Men - opening fight sequence) through the center. The center also seemed cleaner, but that might have just been my expectations.

After I switched the amp back to zone 2, I rewatched the scene again and noticed I couldn't hear all the background noises anymore and the surrounds were definately not as pronounced.

I understand hearing a bit more in the center, but why would my surrounds seem noticeably clearer and more pronounced? Is this normal?
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Jack Hammer said:
I understand hearing a bit more in the center, but why would my surrounds seem noticeably clearer and more pronounced? Is this normal?
.....I suggest you added detail to the center using the slave amp, and it projected throughout the entire sound chamber to add detail to actually "all" the other speakers....also, the load of the center was taken off the receiver to be handled by the slave amp, and the receiver then only had to concentrate on four speakers instead of five....a quality dedicated slave amp brings more than just more watts, as you can now attest.....
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Jack Hammer said:
Last night I hooked my zone 2 amp, Audiosource Amp One/a, to my center channel in monobrigded. It's an M&K LCR851 4 Ohm speaker & a Denon 2805 receiver. I rematched the levels (only the center changed) and had to drop the center 8.5 dbs to be even with the other fronts.

One of the first things I noticed is that I seemed to get more sound from the surround speakers. I also noticed a slight improvement in the background noise from the movie (Mystery Men - opening fight sequence) through the center. The center also seemed cleaner, but that might have just been my expectations.

After I switched the amp back to zone 2, I rewatched the scene again and noticed I couldn't hear all the background noises anymore and the surrounds were definately not as pronounced.

I understand hearing a bit more in the center, but why would my surrounds seem noticeably clearer and more pronounced? Is this normal?

What did you use to level match with that center channel, internal or a DVD source? If internal, you may want to use a DVD to level match and then see the results.
If that center needs so much attenuation, you may want to boost it by a few numbers and use that to match the others to this, and see the results.
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
mtrycrafts said:
What did you use to level match with that center channel, internal or a DVD source? If internal, you may want to use a DVD to level match and then see the results.
If that center needs so much attenuation, you may want to boost it by a few numbers and use that to match the others to this, and see the results.
I used the receivers internal calibration. Right now the amp is back on my zone2. Next time I try it I'll use the Avia disc to calibrate.

I've been thinking a lot about separate amplification based on numerous others percieved results. I'm just not sure yet. There was a noticeable difference, but I'm not sure if it is enough to justify the cost of a "good" amp. I'm waiting to find more of the Amp One/a's on Ubid. I bought mine for zone 2 for $80 delivered. When they come on again, I'll pick up 3 of them and see how much of a difference it makes. I can always use those later for other zones if I upgrade.
 
G

gcmarshall

Full Audioholic
my amp one a's have been very good for movies, when run in mono/bridged mode. i was not so impressed by them for demanding music listening, but for movies, they were good for my needs.
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
mulester7 said:
.....I suggest you added detail to the center using the slave amp, and it projected throughout the entire sound chamber to add detail to actually "all" the other speakers....also, the load of the center was taken off the receiver to be handled by the slave amp, and the receiver then only had to concentrate on four speakers instead of five....a quality dedicated slave amp brings more than just more watts, as you can now attest.....
Actually, that kinda makes sense to me. So if I add amps to all three front channels, you're saying that's when I'll really begin to notice the huge improvement others have mentioned before.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Jack Hammer said:
Actually, that kinda makes sense to me. So if I add amps to all three front channels, you're saying that's when I'll really begin to notice the huge improvement others have mentioned before.
.....yes, JackHammer, I've said it many times before, slave power the front three, and let the receiver handle the rears....many, have reported a marked difference doing this....but as far as a substantial improvement, that depends on the quality of the equipment involved....but generally speaking, dedicated slave amps bring more to the table....others need to chime in......
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
gcmarshall said:
i was not so impressed by them for demanding music listening, but for movies, they were good for my needs.
....well, GC, at $175 bucks new at J&R, the Audiosource One-A slave amp boasting 80 watts per, is not really that far up the food chain....it's bound to be fairly clean though, with 110 signal noise, and .04 THD, even though it wasn't said at what frequency level, ohmage load, or watts-driven those stats were arrived at....it will probably be suggested that the Behringer A500 be considered also, JackHammer....somebody jump in here, I'm sinkin' fast, haha......
 
G

gcmarshall

Full Audioholic
i may have already said this elsewhere, so forgive a possibly double-reply. but, my first experience with separate amps was with the exact amp you are discussing here. i used 3 audiosource amp one a's across my front 3 speakers (each amp was in bridged mode and 200 wpc into 8 ohms, claimed).

several times, i listened to the same movie scene over and over, switching back and forth between having my yamaha 2500 driving all 5 speakers versus the audiosource's driving the front 3 with the 2500 driving the rears. the improvement was not night and day, but it was enough for me to be glad i added external amps. movies seemed a bit more dynamic (especially in complex scenes with a lot of noise), the presentation of the soundtrack seemed a little more powerful, and the amps seemed to have more oomph and control over the soundtracks.

being happy with the movie side of things, but not so thrilled with demanding 2 channel music performance of the audiosources (they were OK, but sounded a little harsh at higher volumes), i decided i wanted something a little more upper crust for my front left and rights. so i added a B&K 200.2 S2 with 225 wpc to drive my front left/rights. now, 1 of my amp one a's drives my center speaker and the remaining 2 amp one a's drive my surrounds.

i am now even more impressed. my B&K gives the front soundstage a more powerful and cleaner presence than my audiosources. the audiosource's run in mon mode on the rears have made the surround effects even more enjoyable.

in short, i believe most mid-grade receivers do a commendable job on surround sound. but, external amps, especially if you can do monos or 2 channels, all around really give some extra punch. that being said, external amps are a completely unnecessary luxury expense, given the good performance of most receivers by themselves.
 
G

gcmarshall

Full Audioholic
mulester,

i have always run my audiosource amp one a's in bridged mode for 200 wpc (not 80 as you mentioned). all of my comments on its performance are in bridged mode.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
gcmarshall said:
mulester,

i have always run my audiosource amp one a's in bridged mode for 200 wpc (not 80 as you mentioned). all of my comments on its performance are in bridged mode.
.....ok, GC, that's what I meant also, three units across the front....and, I'm not trying to belittle in any way, but the amp weighs 14.5 lbs....
 
G

gcmarshall

Full Audioholic
no offense taken. i knew for the price the amp one a's had to be pretty entry-level. as i said though, it performs very adequately for most movie soundtracks. for music, i am much happier with my B&K, which weighs 42 pounds for the 2-channel box. it is more refined.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
gcmarshall said:
no offense taken. i knew for the price the amp one a's had to be pretty entry-level. as i said though, it performs very adequately for most movie soundtracks. for music, i am much happier with my B&K, which weighs 42 pounds for the 2-channel box. it is more refined.
....Yes Sir, Total Agreement, and Lappy Histening, haha....good man....may this thread reveal and attest you can gain quality clean slave power to compliment that receiver and not break the bank.....(cut to commercial)......
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
gcmarshall said:
mulester,

i have always run my audiosource amp one a's in bridged mode for 200 wpc (not 80 as you mentioned). all of my comments on its performance are in bridged mode.
All my speakers are 4 Ohm, I plan on only using each amp in monobridged. My brief experience with movies was similar to yours. I didn't test with music at all. I'll try that at a later date.
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
Jack Hammer said:
After I switched the amp back to zone 2, I rewatched the scene again and noticed I couldn't hear all the background noises anymore and the surrounds were definately not as pronounced.

I understand hearing a bit more in the center, but why would my surrounds seem noticeably clearer and more pronounced? Is this normal?
just my take... if you take the front speaker load (or a portion of it) off the receiver, it will have more power available to drive the rears more clearly.

most intermediate-quality receivers don't have individual transformers. Each channel pulls from a general "pool" of power. the fewer channels pulling on the pool means more for the rest.:)

d'oh...Mule already made these points....
 
G

gcmarshall

Full Audioholic
jack hammer:

i am pretty sure the audiosource amp one a's are not designed to drive 4 ohm loads when the amp is running in bridged mode. be attentive to your amps when doing this and be cautious. maybe get a fan or something to keep them cool. i am pretty certain that in bridged mode you are not supposed to drive anything lower than 8 ohm speakers. check the owners manual to be sure.
 
G

gcmarshall

Full Audioholic
jack hammer:

by the way, how do you like your M&K speakers? are they one of the M&K THX speakers lines?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Jack Hammer said:
I've been thinking a lot about separate amplification based on numerous others percieved results.
Jack Hammer said:
As you indicated, it is perceived only. Who knows for sure :D

There was a noticeable difference, but I'm not sure if it is enough to justify the cost of a "good" amp.

Or, if this is due to the amp in there, or the amp causing something else that another amp may not do. More testing is in order, I think.


I'm waiting to find more of the Amp One/a's on Ubid. I bought mine for zone 2 for $80 delivered.

Hey, that is pocket change:D
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Leprkon said:
just my take... if you take the front speaker load (or a portion of it) off the receiver, it will have more power available to drive the rears more clearly.

most intermediate-quality receivers don't have individual transformers. Each channel pulls from a general "pool" of power. the fewer channels pulling on the pool means more for the rest.:)

d'oh...Mule already made these points....
.....but you said it better, Leprkon......
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
gcmarshall said:
jack hammer:

i am pretty sure the audiosource amp one a's are not designed to drive 4 ohm loads when the amp is running in bridged mode. be attentive to your amps when doing this and be cautious. maybe get a fan or something to keep them cool. i am pretty certain that in bridged mode you are not supposed to drive anything lower than 8 ohm speakers. check the owners manual to be sure.
I'm unable to locate my owners manual. However, I specifically recall seeing the amps are stable down to 2 Ohm loads. It don't recall if it specified there being a difference between stereo or monobridged stability. Would there be?
 
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