Serious online amp shopping question and more...

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Jzac,

There are two dealers here in CA offering in-store demo units...with box and all the accessories for $1900. &nbsp;I like the fact that the unit has a highly regarded tuner section plus all the Yamaha DSP. &nbsp;I tend to favor big, heavy stuff...my Mac Amp (not a receiver) weighs 80 pounds...its those output transformers...and I have heard the Z1 put through some tough paces. &nbsp;It sounded like it had some...muscle. &nbsp;I have heard other units with the same watt rating that weighed in at about 30 pounds but there was just something different about the &quot;sound&quot;...it lacked a certain authority. &nbsp;Might have been my imagination. &nbsp;But anyway, I'd get a Z9 if $$ were no object...or even one of those DSP Z9 units.

Mac Guy</font>

 

[Slav]

<font color='#000000'>Folks,

I really need some feedback and help from you.  Here are links to customer warnings that Yamaha and Denon have posted on their web sites:

Yamaha:
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/warranti.htm

Denon:
http://www.usa.denon.com/dealers/dealers.asp?l=1

I was choosing a new receiver for my HT and after weeks of jittering between Pioneer 53TX, Denon 3803 and Yamaha RXV2400 I decided to go after Yamaha.  I was thinking that the hard time of the decisions is over and the easy time of “buy and enjoy” is coming.  WRONG!

First I tried E-shops.  RXV2400 is on backorder almost everywhere.  But speaking to them, three groups of retailers looked clear.  Group 1: selling the unit with Yamaha 1 year warranty; Group 2: send the unit back to the shop warranty; Group 3: Buy and you are on your own.

At one point I decided to purchase it from Yamaha dealer.  Here the surprises started.  I was unable to find a single place where I could buy it on line!  OK, I went to closest local authorized dealership.  It turned out a dusty and a messy place.  I was looking at RX-V2400, when the salesperson approached me.  During the conversation I asked him what is his opinion about the internet retailers.  He became ballistic.  It is hard to present all his emotions.  Generally he believed that they (the web guys) only sell refurbished, or B-stock products.  On my question what B-stock is he answered – units that fail the manufacturer production tests (interesting how such equipment can make its way from Japan to USA?).  Finally he expressed his content from the zero tolerance policy of all major manufacturers towards such semi criminals.  He was very proud with his “Authorized” status, because he had all the qualities to help me choose my product and to help me set it up.  For some reason I did not need any of the explained services, I am used to do this things by myself.

So right now I am in a kind of deadlock situation, deciding to buy RXV2400 from “criminals” or Yamaha chosen “Authorities” full with qualities.  

So, folks, beside the mess with the warranties, are you aware of any differences between the “gray” web purchased receivers and the “Authorized” ones?

Thank you,
Slav</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Slav,

I have been the route you mention many, many times.  I have talked with Yamaha by phone at least 6 times over 3 years and their sentiments are concise and clear...&quot;No warranty work will be honored unless you can produce a receipt from an authorized Yamaha dealer&quot;.  I mentioned two dealers in my area and the rep said, &quot;Those dealers are authorized&quot;.  So, I took his advice and visited them.  It looks like it will work out just fine.  Yamaha will gladly give you a list of online stores that are authorized if you so wish.  Be careful of any other online advertisement that says...&quot;New, in box with warranty&quot;.  Ask the seller for documentation in writing as to who will do the warranty repair work.  Each time I have asked for this, the sellers refuse.
To save a couple hundred bucks online (whether from an auction or retailer not on Yamaha's list) only to have the unit arrive damaged, not a USA piece or to be continually plagued with problems is not, in my opinion, worth the savings.
If you find a local authorized dealer and over time establish a rapport with the sales person or better yet, the manager or the owner, you may be surprised at the deal you can swing.

Mac Guy</font>

 

[jzac]

<font color='#000000'>Mac Guy,

Thanks for the info. That's one heck of a good price to get it considering it retails for around $4.5K.

Slav,

You and I are in a exact same situation with the purchase dilemma.

I have been doing this for a few weeks too. From what Mac Guy and others have been telling, I think it makes sense for us to go with some authorized dealer even if it costs a bit more. I wouldn't have agreed if it was any other item like a dvd or a vcr player, but the fact that this is the brain-box and there are chances that things can go wrong AND being so expensive...why take chance and then regret. Those people that have bought it online and don't have a problem so far is lucky. Also, I think these warranties that these e-tailers are purporting is hogwash as I have found out. One of the good sources for electronic goods told me that he will have someone come to my house and fix it if I go with their warranty on this item! &nbsp;

I'm also told by an authorized dealer that the v2400s cannot be sold online by any of the authorized dealers. I'll check with Yamaha for the sake of it. &nbsp;Its true that nobody has in stock...even most of the authorized dealers don't have it. Apparently, Yamaha is having a hard time getting these units out the door as fast as they would like to, and it might be by April or so before they see a regular flow of them.

</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Jzac,

The Z1 my local dealer will sell for $1900 retails for $2800, not $4500. &nbsp;I didn't mean to imply I was looking at a Z9. &nbsp;All things considered, I still think its a good deal.

Mac Guy</font>

 

[pam]

<font color='#000000'>Insurance is a different matter for us Canadians. Here, a RVX-2400 cost 2000$CAD (1515$USD instead of 799-999). At this price, I will buy from a ebay dealer with a good reputation.

Denon is doing the same thing, their MRSP for 5803 is more than a thousand dollar more expensive in Canada than in US.

Canadian distributors are greedy. Also the corporations pay less income/profit tax in Canada than in US (the individual do pay more tax than in US).

At the end of the day, for us Canadians, the only solution:
- Get a cheap price from a reliable retailer (no need to get a Warranty that will only be recognized in US!);
- If you feel insecure get extra insurance (10%-15%);
- If you don't feel insecure, don't get insurance and if it breaks either repair it or get another one (with the money you saved you can get another one).</font>

 

[Slav]

<font color='#000000'>Mac Guy and Jzac, thank you for your responses. &nbsp;Even before I met that local dealer I was thinking for purchase from Yamaha recognized place. &nbsp;Unfortunately that guy with his arrogance and stupidity manage to annoy me.

But I see a foul play from Yamaha also. &nbsp;Whoever all these dozens of E-retailers are, I can’t believe they are selling stolen equipment. &nbsp;Sometime ago, at some place in the world these receivers had been sold by Yamaha to somebody. &nbsp;And when they reach USA, what is Yamaha USA doing – jumps in the trench and opens fire against everybody who undercuts their MSRP or even heftier Canadian dealer prices (thanks Pam). &nbsp;I am curios how much the Asian and General model (according to the RXV2400 manual it accommodates all AC voltages/frequencies so it can be used everywhere in the world) does cost in China &nbsp;;-))). &nbsp;I guess this can explain the Yamaha behavior.

One good thing is that now my buying fever cooled down and I am ready to wait another month or two.

Slav</font>

 

[pam]

<font color='#000000'>Hi

Don't know about China but in Japan the price of the equivalent of RX-Z9 is around 450000 Yens (4,125 USD) and the lowest I could find was 350000 Yens (3255 USD). But I must admint that I did browse their 'Ebay'.

One thing for sure: Yamaha has produced these. Either they are selling it lower knowing that they won't have to put some provision for the warranty or they are re-circulating B-stock. I tend to believe the first solution as these products are usually delivered spotless. These may be machines that did not pass their quality control. Anyway, they know about it.

I tend to think that someone who put his name on a product and does not recognized their warranty are suspicious. I talk about Yamaha but they are all the same. If you did a product, it should be good whatever the channel used for distribution. Talk about this to Cartier, Louis Vuiton, Rolex and all these company who complains about copies of their product...</font>

 

[pam]

<font color='#000000'>Hi

One last thing, I have bought:
- 1 tuner;
- 1 amp;
- 1 pre-amp;
- 1 portable CD;
- 3 computers (with 6 hard disks);
- 2 turntables;
- 2 DVD players;
- 1 receiver;
- 3 VCR;
in the last 10 years. I had the following problem:
- 1 VCR went down (while under a &quot;friend's&quot; good care) after warranty;
- 1 hard disk after warranty (could have reformatted it but it was too small);
- 1 DVD player needed a 40$ repair after 8 years.

May be I am lucky but Warranty is like insurance. On the long run it cust you more (OK we have only one life to spare) than being self insured.

Now, I have a Hitachi 57S500 and I have been trying to have the warranty guys (not Hitachi) come and correct some ghosting and geometry problems... Finally he accepted to adjust the screen position refusing to decrease my eoverscan (now &gt; 7.5%).
You know what, they don't have access to the information from the supplier. So unless something is totally broken they don't have any mean to adjust and fix the TV. It is even worst than that, they avoid going in the service menu, they won't even look at the ISF calibration sub-menu. The technicien told me that they have minimal access to their database.

Let me go even further: the technicien told me that some companies are aware of some recuring problems and they don't tell it to the people who repair their own stuff. May be this is the reason why some many warranties are done by intermediate and you can not return your equipment to them. By preventing their own employees to do the repair, they are preventing you from getting some information from honest employees who would probably do their best to help you.

This seems machiavelic to some of you. It is old story. Remember in the car industry: the Pinto...

Now if the stuff is not working they will just replace it in the worst case. Warranty cost at least 10% more for one year... Do you think that 10% of your equipment will fail in the first year (and not in the first month).

One last thing: some of these people who sells these equipment offer a warranty for the first month. You can just return the equipment. So let me rephrase: how many equipemnt will fail between the second month and one year.

BTW, you can also buy an official (with warranty) B-stock Denon 5803 for 2699$...

Bottom line: any deal with one month warranty that offers me more than 10% reduction is a good deal.

One last thing: I was forced to think about this because of the prices in Canada that are too high.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>Zumbo say the difference between the 1400 and the 2400 is 10 wpc. I think there are some functional differences too. I say $200 is worth it to go from 1400 to 2400 but $2000 to go from 2400 to Z1 I'm not sure.</font>

 

[Slav]

<font color='#000000'>Hi,

Beside the cosmetics like: Remote with macros support; RS-232; two 12v trigger outputs; Video out for the second zone, there is only one difference that can affect the RXV2400 performance over RXV1400. &nbsp;The power supply capacitors of 2400 are 15,000uF versus 10,000uF for 1400. &nbsp;This provides better quality DC under high current operation.

Slav</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>The products sold by online retailers who are not Yamaha Authorised have most been purchased in bulk at discount from an authorised dealer. If you take your serial number to Yamaha they can ( if they want too) tell you which autherised dealer ir came from. Autherised dealers just restrict supply and inctrease margins.</font>