Separates general questions

[Dave67]

Hi All,

Starting down the path of considering Separates while in withdrawal with RX-A3080 still, maybe getting fixed (previous thread).

From what I read so far Separates are the best alternative ignoring the cost.

I had a 5.2.4 setup... so what I'm looking at is at least 9.2 channels and to go that I mose well go 11.2 and I'm flipping between Yamaha and Marantz alternatives.

Now what I've seen advertise was Marantz AV-7066 (11.2 ) bundled with MM-8077 (7 channels). What does this actually mean? Another Amp is still required for 5.2.4 (9.2 channels)?

And if it is do you achieve same thing with say a Marantz SR7015 supported by 5 channel Amp?

 

[witchdoctor]

I would recommend considering separates only after ou have:

1) Treated your room
2) Calibrated your system with room correction.
3) Reduced noise caused by EMF and RFI to the max possible.
4) Upgraded your source to the best possible signal.

Without these steps I think buying new equipment is money wasted.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi All,

Starting down the path of considering Separates while in withdrawal with RX-A3080 still, maybe getting fixed (previous thread).

From what I read so far Separates are the best alternative ignoring the cost.

I had a 5.2.4 setup... so what I'm looking at is at least 9.2 channels and to go that I mose well go 11.2 and I'm flipping between Yamaha and Marantz alternatives.

Now what I've seen advertise was Marantz AV-7066 (11.2 ) bundled with MM-8077 (7 channels). What does this actually mean? Another Amp is still required for 5.2.4 (9.2 channels)?

And if it is do you achieve same thing with say a Marantz SR7015 supported by 5 channel Amp?

Separates may offer some flexibility in your setup. May offer nothing to what you're doing now. You haven't mentioned anything particularly meaningful in your setup/use/expectations Simply changing to separates, no.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi All,

Starting down the path of considering Separates while in withdrawal with RX-A3080 still, maybe getting fixed (previous thread).

From what I read so far Separates are the best alternative ignoring the cost.

I had a 5.2.4 setup... so what I'm looking at is at least 9.2 channels and to go that I mose well go 11.2 and I'm flipping between Yamaha and Marantz alternatives.

Now what I've seen advertise was Marantz AV-7066 (11.2 ) bundled with MM-8077 (7 channels). What does this actually mean? Another Amp is still required for 5.2.4 (9.2 channels)?

And if it is do you achieve same thing with say a Marantz SR7015 supported by 5 channel Amp?

The issue with receivers, is that the power amps are crowded around the processing boards, and there is a ventilation issue. A big issue is that there are too many amps being driven off one power supply. The power supplies are clearly undersized as judged by power reduction in each channel as more channels are driven.

This later problem also applies to multichannel power amps with five or seven channels in one case. I believe that the maximum number of channels should be no more than two, or at the most three. In addition these power amps with large number of channels become a service nightmare.

I have a friend who has been after me to service his five channel amp. I can not even lift the darn thing, and so I need a strong young man to lift it onto my test bench. I don't know I could move it around for service access. So this approach is no good either.

So I do use a pre/pros. I have three in use at the moment. I do believe they are more reliable, and I use multiple two channel amps.

The real answer to this problem, especially with the proliferation of channels is active loud speakers, which now have huge performance advantages over passive speakers, with greatly improved performance.

 

[Dave67]

I had Yamaha RX-A3080 in 5.2.4 setup and got hit with firmware issues. Been without it a month, no idea timeframe. Question becomes do I get another one and if so which. If the RX-A3080 gets repaired sell it!

Room treatment / setup? Don't go there. Expat in Thailand... can frequently move; you lucky to get room bigger enough without tiles half way up the wall. Source? Wifi great but sources limited to Netflix

Why then? Beats sitting in a bar drinking...

So it seems with Separates multiple small amps better.

YouTube is watching me. Amping a AVR is better but still crowding issue

 

[witchdoctor]

I had Yamaha RX-A3080 in 5.2.4 setup and got hit with firmware issues. Been without it a month, no idea timeframe. Question becomes do I get another one and if so which. If the RX-A3080 gets repaired sell it!

Room treatment / setup? Don't go there. Expat in Thailand... can frequently move; you lucky to get room bigger enough without tiles half way up the wall. Source? Wifi great but sources limited to Netflix

Why then? Beats sitting in a bar drinking...

So it seems with Separates multiple small amps better.

YouTube is watching me. Amping a AVR is better but still crowding issue

Portable room treatment works. I use a portable panel in the doorway in the nack of my listening room. Very light and easy to move out of the way when not in use.:

Shop - Portable - Portable Kits - Auralex Acoustics

auralex.com

 

[Speedskater]

'Separates' have been promoted by the 'old-school' hi-fi group for decades! They want to be able to mix & match everything. That's why high-end modern active speaker were so slow to take-off, they couldn't swap amps or cables. Also receiver designs have come a long way over the decades. Now it's well designed DSP control, SMPS power supply and Class 'D' power amplifiers.
For a system with reasonable loudspeakers, played at reasonable volumes, receivers will do great.
So will a DSP control unit and active powered speakers.

 

[Golfx]

Besides the logic of bench measurements, there is another unmeasurable reason to go separates—“old school” pride of ownership.

 

[PENG]

To some extent it is like:

- ICs versus DC (Discrete circuits)

- Within ICs, there is the SSI (small scale integrated) vs MSI (Medium scale vs LSI (large scale integrated)

- Separate preamp and power power amp vs integrated amp

Whether one is really better sonically or not, it depends, as always...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

From what I read so far Separates are the best alternative ignoring the cost.

Besides the logic of bench measurements, there is another unmeasurable reason to go separates—“old school” pride of ownership.

Yeah, I think pride of ownership is probably the salient reason.

The other reason (mentioned by @TLS Guy) is that the AVP doesn’t have 9-11CH of amps crowded inside so the internal parts will usually have less heat.

The measurement numbers/benchmarks (THD, SNR, etc.) are completely inaudible and don’t tell you if something is more reliable or sounds better.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This what I think about electronics sometimes:

 

[Verdinut]

So I do use a pre/pros. I have three in use at the moment. I do believe they are more reliable, and I use multiple two channel amps.

The real answer to this problem, especially with the proliferation of channels is active loud speakers, which now have huge performance advantages over passive speakers, with greatly improved performance.

By active loudspeakers, I understand you mean any loudspeaker driver which is not fed via a passive crossover.

In my opinion, that is a must for woofers that are to be driven with a low pass filter below 400 Hz. For higher frequencies, a well designed passive crossover is acceptable in most situations.

 

[fmw]

By active loudspeakers, I understand you mean any loudspeaker driver which is not fed via a passive crossover.

An active speaker is one with an amplifier built in.

 

[TLS Guy]

An active speaker is one with an amplifier built in.

And also has an active electronic crossover and an amp for each speaker. I speaker with an amp and passive crossover is called a powered speaker.

 

[highfigh]

The issue with receivers, is that the power amps are crowded around the processing boards, and there is a ventilation issue. A big issue is that there are too many amps being driven off one power supply. The power supplies are clearly undersized as judged by power reduction in each channel as more channels are driven.

This later problem also applies to multichannel power amps with five or seven channels in one case. I believe that the maximum number of channels should be no more than two, or at the most three. In addition these power amps with large number of channels become a service nightmare.

I have a friend who has been after me to service his five channel amp. I can not even lift the darn thing, and so I need a strong young man to lift it onto my test bench. I don't know I could move it around for service access. So this approach is no good either.

So I do use a pre/pros. I have three in use at the moment. I do believe they are more reliable, and I use multiple two channel amps.

The real answer to this problem, especially with the proliferation of channels is active loud speakers, which now have huge performance advantages over passive speakers, with greatly improved performance.

If you won't need to lift the big amp once it's on your bench, maybe a Lazy Susan with a wooden platform on top & bottom would help- you would be able to rotate it and if you want to keep it in one place, a spring-loaded pin that enters the bottom platform (or just a metal tab that's attached to the lower ring of the Lazy Susan) would work.

Low Profile Lazy Susans

Traditionally you would find a Lazy Susan in the kitchen this useful piece of hardware can be used as an invaluable component for your: entertainment center, closet, pantry, liquor cabinet, tool rack and even for visually stunning centerpieces.

www.rockler.com

 

[highfigh]

By active loudspeakers, I understand you mean any loudspeaker driver which is not fed via a passive crossover.

In my opinion, that is a must for woofers that are to be driven with a low pass filter below 400 Hz. For higher frequencies, a well designed passive crossover is acceptable in most situations.

That's the problem- not enough passive crossovers are well-designed and they cause a lot of problems with phase shift and output because of insertion loss..

 

[fmw]

And also has an active electronic crossover and an amp for each speaker. I speaker with an amp and passive crossover is called a powered speaker.

Thanks.