Separate Amp for my front Towers?

[Jeff R.]

All

I am contemplating purchasing a 2 channel amp to power my front towers with. I am in no way dissatisfied with my setup, but keep wondering what I am missing in performance from my towers by letting my AVR be the sole power source. I have been looking at used amps on Audiogon and Ebay. I am not sure how many of these separate amps will stack up. I have seen many deals on some Adcoms, Carvers, NAD and a few others. How close do these amps stack up in actual power ratings vs my Onk 805. I see most of these are rated in the 150-250 W/ch range. I am trying to understand how much that gains me vs my 130 W/ch AVR rating...... Right now my budget is relatively small. I am trying to keep it less that about $350. Any advise is welcome.

Thanks

Jeff

 

[JerryLove]

Whether an external amp brings something to the table over a similarly powered AVR is the topic of some debate here and elsewhere.

It's also likely valid to say that like all amps, all avr's are not created equal.

I don't have a strong opinion either way... but what I can tell you is this:
All other things being equal, the difference between 130W and 260W is 3db.

 

[njedpx3]

Whether an external amp brings something to the table over a similarly powered AVR is the topic of some debate here and elsewhere.

It's also likely valid to say that like all amps, all avr's are not created equal.

I don't have a strong opinion either way... but what I can tell you is this:
All other things being equal, the difference between 130W and 260W is 3db.

JerryLove is absolutely correct that going from 130 W to 260w is only a 3dB gain. Remember power is logrithmic not linear.

Here is a great external amp Behringer EP2500 for as low as $269.99 It provides 450 watts per channel into 8 ohms .
This is a 5.4 dB gain over 130 watts. It should give you plenty of headroom

Good Luck!

Forest Man

 

[oppman99]

Remember many manufactures of AVR's give the power output with only two channels driven. The actual output with all channels driven will be lower than the stated specs. I fall in the camp that prefers separate amplification. It would be ideal if you knew someone with an amp that you could try in your system to see if you notice a difference. That would definately make the decision easier.

 

[Jeff R.]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone with an amp to try out. One reason I was stronly considering buying used. I figure I likely only have shipping costs to risk with out the depreciation of a new unit.

 

[davidtwotrees]

In my experience all that an external amp (Parasound HCA2003) gave me was a really heavy extra black box that looked cool sitting on an amp stand between my large tower speakers. Plus, more interconnects. I wanted badly to hear a difference in my day to day listening, but I couldn't. Do you critically listen to classical music with deep organ notes? Do you like your music really loud? Do you only watch movies that are full of explosions and loud effects? An amp might make a diff. Once I was objective about it, though, for me, today, and external amp was just extra stuff in my rig. Actually, now my amps are right in my speakers.............active, ftw.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also agree.

I have never once in my life experienced an improvement in sound quality by adding an amp or by increasing amp power.

I've used amps that are 50 watts per ch (receiver) to ext amps that are 300 watts per ch.

And, of course, most of us are aware of that famous "$200 Pioneer receiver vs that $20K Boulder amps" double-blinded study which showed no difference in sound quality (the exact number escapes me, but it's something like that).

 

[GlocksRock]

If your receiver won't play your speakers loud enough for you, then you may benefit from an amp. But others have noticed an improvement in dynamics by adding more power, I say it definitely can't hurt to add an amp, and if you amp your front speakers, that frees up the receiver to supply more power to the other channels when needed.

 

[JerryLove]

My new speakers will include the first time I've used dedicated amps in a system (except for the single-source system where there was no receiver, so just an amp).

Of course, it's because the speakers require 8 channels of power, with one at 450W to achieve specified SPL.

We've got a lot of DBTs for speaker wire. Do we for amps?

 

[itschris]

I don't know, i've played around with this a couple of different times and think I even posted some "non-scientific" pseudo blind testing thoughts between letting my Elite do the power vs my Sunfire. I tested in pure direct mode and I'm pretty sure I preferred the Sunfire setup each time. I don't know if it's just a different tonal quality or if it was something else, but I could tell when my friend was actually trying to fool me and not actually making the switch. I don't know... in the grand scheme... I'm not sure it matters much either way.

As far as the OP's question about different amps, I also have an ADCOM 555II 200x2 amp. I can say with complete confidence that the amp has a ton of power. It's powered big inefficient electrostatic speakers before and they sounded full and unchallenged by even the highest volumes. It's just sitting in my closet and is pretty much in mint condition. If you're interested, just PM me and we can talk about it.

 

[mibson]

I recently bought a Emotiva UPA-2 and I am very happy. They are cheep and powerfull.

Ive heard the difference when my brother when from 55wpc 2.0stereo to 185wpc 2.0stereo, it was a big difference. The bass was much more "clear" and "tight".

It was a blind test...

 

[njedpx3]

I don't know, i've played around with this a couple of different times and think I even posted some "non-scientific" pseudo blind testing thoughts between letting my Elite do the power vs my Sunfire. I tested in pure direct mode and I'm pretty sure I preferred the Sunfire setup each time. I don't know if it's just a different tonal quality or if it was something else, but I could tell when my friend was actually trying to fool me and not actually making the switch. I don't know... in the grand scheme... I'm not sure it matters much either way.

As far as the OP's question about different amps, I also have an ADCOM 555II 200x2 amp. I can say with complete confidence that the amp has a ton of power. It's powered big inefficient electrostatic speakers before and they sounded full and unchallenged by even the highest volumes. It's just sitting in my closet and is pretty much in mint condition. If you're interested, just PM me and we can talk about it.

Good post Chris, The OP probably won't see any difference at all unless he is pushing the max power and has no headroom left. If he needs the power then your ADCOM would be just the ticket.

Peace,

Forest Man

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I suppose everyone is entitled to experience an external amp at least once in his or her life. I've had my shares over the years.

In that case, I recommend getting a Behringer amp from amazon and return it if it does not work out.

 

[gmichael]

The speakers you are using will make the difference. If you have easy to drive speakers with no low dips in resistance, then you may not notice much difference. If you have speakers that are hard to drive or have big dips in resistance, you may hear a difference. (At 8 ohms driven with 100 watts your amps pulls 12 Amps. At 2 ohms, that amps pulls 50 Amps) Often switching to an external amp of even the same 100 watts can give you more headroom if your speakers need the extra current)

Edit: Reviews of your speakers suggest that you might do well to add an amp. http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/mb-quart/ql-s830-/PRD_120022_1594crx.aspx

 

[itschris]

Good post Chris, The OP probably won't see any difference at all unless he is pushing the max power and has no headroom left. If he needs the power then your ADCOM would be just the ticket.

Peace,

Forest Man

You know, I miss the industrial look of things. I remember when I was kid, geez back probably 25 years or so ago we would go to the MacDill Air Force Base to go shopping for the family groceries and other sundries. After leaving the commissary, we'd go to the PX. I remember they had a stereo section and they carried Carver there. It was the old style with the loop handles on either end and it just looked like really important equipment. The Sound Advice by my house closed not too long ago but they used to carry the old industrial looling Krell stuff. It just look brutal. Adcom was very much the same way. I used to have 2 monster Adcom monoblocks and then added the 2 channel later on when I first got into ht. I didn't have a center at the time but it didn't matter much with the old pro logic if you used the phantom setting.

Every now and then I hook up that Adcom to my old BIC Venturi towers I still have and I still think it sounds fantastic. It's just a hard driving ballsy amp.

 

[JerryLove]

There are some HT stores in South Tampa carrying Krell, Carver, and their kin (one on Howard comes to mind). The pro stuff looks a lot like that too.

 

[Jeff R.]

Thanks for all the great advice. I will have to see how Christmas shapes up at my house. Maybe I will get a New Years present for myself.

I will also strongly think about the Adcom mentioned by "itschris".

The more I think about it......I think I going down this road after a change from my old HK AVR7000 and my trade the Onkyo 805. I think I lost some powerful amps in old HK and not sure my 805 is keeping up.....Anybody think this could be the case, or am I just over reacting to sonic differences and both are very similar in amp capabilities.....

Jeff

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks for all the great advice. I will have to see how Christmas shapes up at my house. Maybe I will get a New Years present for myself.

I will also strongly think about the Adcom mentioned by "itschris".

The more I think about it......I think I going down this road after a change from my old HK AVR7000 and my trade the Onkyo 805. I think I lost some powerful amps in old HK and not sure my 805 is keeping up.....Anybody think this could be the case, or am I just over reacting to sonic differences and both are very similar in amp capabilities.....

Jeff

I think you are way over reacting unless you properly confirmed your perceptions that may be unreliable at times. No reason why that 805 would not be a capable amp in the first place.

 

[itschris]

There are some HT stores in South Tampa carrying Krell, Carver, and their kin (one on Howard comes to mind). The pro stuff looks a lot like that too.

It's been awhile since I've been in a shop that actually had any inventory. I'll have to check them out. Thanx for the tip J-love

 

[Warpdrv]

It def depends on how many channels you are driving and how much load your receiver is going to incur.... Even if you have 5-7 efficient speakers but are watching movies at sometimes extreme levels you can easily tax and clip the internal amps on a receiver - inducing distortion, which is never what anyone wants... unless you just don't notice it...


You should describe your system, room size and listening habits....

That would be more helpful to determine whether an external amp might be necessary...