semi advanced question

[eyedoc]

I have a couple speaker cable questions for the gurus and engineer powers that be, that I have not been able to find in the past threads:

1) I need a pair of cables that are 60-70 feet. (To go to the second room at the other end of the house). What final gage do I need to not cause problems. I am planning on running these under the floor (through the basement) so I am not worried about how they look.

2) I use CAT 5 cables for the front and center channels of main theater. Is there a distance limitation with these cables if I want to use them for the back channels as well (25+ feet through the room)

3) I am also thinking about I am also planning on running the cables in #2 internally up a wall, through the attic, down the other wall terminated with a wall plate (on both ends) with a total horizontal and vertical distance of about 40+ feet. Do I want to use the same cat 5 cable, thicker Home Depot extension cord, or what. I do have a spool of cable that was marketed by Bose 20+ years ago that is a two solid core cord with PVC around each wire and overall outer jacket. It is 16 AWG. This cable seems to be similar to the “Belden 5200UE Non-Paired - Commercial Audio Systems - 2 Conductors Cabled”

I am not looking for cables to impress the neighbors, I am just looking to do it right the first time. I am also comfortable with DIY. Amps change occasionally, but currently are either Adcom, McIntosh, Parasound or Onkyo (all old when they were made well...) Speakers are equally old JBL Pro speakers (not the consumer grade models...)

Thank you in advance,
eyedoc (Kevin)

 

[zildjian]

You refer to CAT-5 cables. Isn't that ethernet computer networking cable? If so, that's not what you want to use for speaker cables.

If you use your 16 AWG cable, you say 60 feet, that's only a 0.5 dB loss for that run. 14 gauge would be better and 12 gauge would be best for such a long run, but your 16 would work fine.
Brad

 

[danglerb]

Cat5 is WAY to small to run any level of power through, telephone, headphones, that kind of power is fine, but even surrounds need more power than those tiny wires are going to support. Thinking Cat5 is like 22 or 24 guage, but too lazy to check the box 5 feet away from me.

16 is ok for the surrounds etc. but that long in the walls I would use 10 or 12 for the mains. Pay once for the cost of better wire, pay for life for a higher power amp and wasted power in smaller cables to get the same sound level.

Make sure you are using cable rated as safe to put in the walls of a house, thats CL2 and NEC rating I think. Blue jeans cables sells stuff like that, maybe home depot too.

 

[MACCA350]

Here is a good page on the subject, scroll down for speaker wire recommended lengths for different guage's and ohm loads.

cheers

 

[t3031999]

Cat5 actually makes really good speaker cable, you just have to use multiple strands of it to make a cable.
Check out this link.

As you can see Cat5 actually rated the highest of all of the DIY speaker cables

 

[InTheIndustry]

News Flash

Please please replace your CAT5 cable you are using for your speakers with real IN-Wall CL2 speaker wire. Using real speaker wire is not going too far to impress the neighbors. Your speakers were more than likely designed to be used with real speaker wire. 14awg or even better 12awg should be fine for what you are trying to accomplish. It's not really that expensive if you shop around. Please do not use an extension cord from Home Depot to run your audio.

CAT5 makes a really good speaker cable.... for people who think they "A" just want noise and not good sound, "B" know more than the engineers that actually design the equipment, and/or "C" scoff at spending $0.08 a foot for speaker wire when something that looks like speaker wire can be used for $0.03 a foot.

Some a/v installers use CAT5 for component video runs to save a few cents a foot. I feel terrible for people who have been taken advantage of in this way as there is so much roll off in the signal. I also hate ABUS systems with a passion. They sound like crap over CAT5.

I know that this post comes across as mean spirited (it kind of is), but hobbyists that recommend poor poor poor solutions to innocent people who think they're getting great advice really gets my goat. I see this stuff a lot on chat sites but only speak up when something recommended is a really really bad idea. Someone on here once recommended to use RG6 for outdoor speaker wire as a “cheap solution”. Are you serious?

My experience: I design, engineer, and build home theaters and whole house audio systems for a living. Damn good ones if you ask me . I understand that this is just advice and you can take it or leave it, but I’ve been doing this for over 7 years.

I really am sorry to be so mean, but this type of stuff really fires me up. What can I say... at least I'm passionate!

 

[t3031999]

I would like to note that
A. Cat5 has many, many supporters saying that it sounds just as good if not better than most speaker cables.
B. Cat5 has been backed by several electrical engineers as having better performance than most traditional speakers cables.
C. Is cheap but requires alot of braiding, etc..., so most switch to it because of performance and not because it's so incredibly cheap.

I would never recommend Cat5 for component video, and never recommend single wires in Cat5 as speaker cables. But the braided ones perform very well.

Specs don't lie, the only people who say they do are those that make money by ripping people off, or those people who need to think they didn't get ripped off.

 

[Sarius]

CAT5 makes a really good speaker cable.... for people who think they "A" just want noise and not good sound, "B" know more than the engineers that actually design the equipment, and/or "C" scoff at spending $0.08 a foot for speaker wire when something that looks like speaker wire can be used for $0.03 a foot.

Are you referring to just trying to use a single run of Cat 5, where you have just one or two 28 ga wires carrying the signal, or do you mean that some of the DIY ideas of twisting multiple runs of Cat 5 together into a good connector to get a 14 ga equivalent signal path are likewise an inferior way to go?

BTW- the last time I looked at Plenum rated Cat 5 it was running more like $0.41/foot whereas I've seen the Carol 14 ga in wall two conductor speaker wire for $0.22, so you can't even say that the Cat 5 is cheaper, especially if you triple it up!!

 

[Audioholics]

You (plural, as in "everyone") need to specify braided Cat5e per "XYZ" style, etc... Just saying "Cat5 cable" inplies that you are recommending a single Cat5 run of cable - which would be ludicrous.

I think that is the confusion here. Bottom line is go get some in-wall 12 gauge CL2 speaker wire. Braiding Cat5 may be fun for hobbyists but it's certainly not a good recommendation for in-wall use or for a low-hassle solution.

 

[eyedoc]

You (plural, as in "everyone") need to specify braided Cat5e per "XYZ" style, etc... Just saying "Cat5 cable" inplies that you are recommending a single Cat5 run of cable - which would be ludicrous.

I think that is the confusion here.

Oops, Point well taken. I am not using a single run of cable. I am using the version braided like the Chris VenHaus cable. Yes lots of time spent, but when it is made 15 minutes here and 15 minutes there it does not hurt as much... I have also been playing with a version similar to “CAT 5 - V5, Six Cables in Three Twisted Pairs Braided” from the “DIY Speaker Cable Face-off” except that I stripped the outer cover and have all of the colors together and the whites together (again in the VenHaus method).


Now that I have gone back to re-read my original post, I realize that I was not very clear. I have no intention of running the Cat5 cable through the wall (especially a single strand). The question was more directed to the gauge of the wire needed to make the run, and whether my present solid core wire was enough for the in wall run to the rear speakers. I figured that it was not enough for the run to the other end of the house.

The main reason for mentioning my Cat5 wires was to take one variable out of the equation (which obviously had the opposite effect). One again, sorry for my misleading post.

Actually, while I am at it, is there a brand of wall plate/boxes that seem to work better than others? I tend to like banana plugs for terminations, but am not locked in to any particular design.

Thanks for the input,
Kevin.