self instal help

[wadeacevedo]

i would like to instal an amx system in my new home in america. i would like for it to control Sprinkling Systems, Drapes and Blinds, Gates and Doors, Spas and Swimming Pools, Locks and Security Devices, Fireplaces, hvac systems, survalence, and audio video systems within my home. if you have any install, equepment sugestions or any tips or triks they would be much apreciated

wade

 

[BMXTRIX]

Are you serious or trying to be sarcastic...?

What you are describing is very similar to what I am doing in my home, so it's not impossible.

 

[wadeacevedo]

no im serious i want to try and save some money
also i will be reciving some help from a family member who instaled telecom professionally (mostly phones and computer systems)
also i ame curently going through school right now geting educated on digital video and have alredy leard alot about video distribution

 

[BMXTRIX]

Okay, while I am not a AMX expert - Crestron is my specialty, you will need to sit down and draw up what exactly you are looking to do.

Not just "I want it to control my sprinklers", but you will need to find a specific make and model of sprinklers that are possible to be controlled. Likewise with motorized blinds, gates, doors, spas (Jandy), security (Apex), fireplace (low voltage?), hvac (Aprilaire), suveilence (lots), etc.

Every little detail must be figured out ahead of time, and really, it will take days to do it correctly. Major engineering time, then a major investment on your part for the raw materials. While I think it is great you want to do all of this yourself, the reason there are technical engineers who have jobs specializing in AMX & Crestron system design, layout, and programming, is because it isn't something you 'just do'.

As a programmer, I have heard from technicians for the last ten years who say "I've got to learn how to program Crestron." Out of about a dozen who have tried, only one ever was able to make the transition from wire-puller A/V specialist, to programmer. AMX programming requires actual programming abilities as well as graphics arts experience along with a fair amount of engineering skill.

The SINGLE biggest screw up you can have is going through a catalog and just picking 'the best'. Manufacturers (flat out) lie about the capabilities of their equipment.

IE: I recently had to program some Krell equipment. While incredibly expensive, and sounding fantastic, I saw the unit lock up several times during basic communication with Crestron. The Crestron side didn't lock up, just the Krell. It had one of those fantastic zone 2 features: When you turn off zone 1, zone 2 turns off. WTF!!! This is not the type of thing they advertise, but completely kills the value of a product.

Another example: Residential Sharp LCD & Plasma displays w/RS-232 control. You can turn the display off with RS-232, but you can't turn it back on. It simply isn't possible. You must then hook an IR emitter to the front of the display (yuck!) to turn it on. But, with IR you don't get discrete power on/off commands. Sharp has been aware of this issue for over 4 years now and they still haven't fixed it.

Oh, it isn't an issue on their commercial LCD display. Once again: WTF!!!???

If you are not intimate with home automation and AMX (or Crestron if you are open to options) and are not a programmer, then I stronly suggest you get in touch with a company that is serious about it and you can buy from. A lot of places will give away a lot of free engineering if you buy product from them. But, others will charge you less for product and put an actual dollar amount on the engineering time.

Where are you building?

 

[RLA]

Save yourself some money and hire a Pro

 

[wadeacevedo]

well,
i am doing this in florida to answer that question.
about the systems i want to controle, none of them are amx or Crestron copatible and and dont comunicat withe anything other than themselfs so if you have any segestions for things like pool timer boxes pumps heaters valeves, irigation controles and hvac controlers. also we curently dont have a securety or rvalence system but if you have any sugestions on thoses total systems that would be great.
also you mentiond companies that would spec a system for free as long as i purchased parts from them and send me the parts do you know of any trustworthy componies who wont send me crapie equepment in florida or bordering states.

 

[wadeacevedo]

Save yourself some money and hire a Pro

actualy hireing a pro would cost more becuse your not only paying for the equepment but your also paying for the instalation and travele fees (becuse i dont live in a metropolotin type area and the nerest is over 200 miles away) and so many othe "hiden" fees. if i instal myself i save all those fees and just pay for the equepment, also i get to shop around for the best price when i know what i need

 

[BMXTRIX]

I guess what it boils down to, is that it doesn't sound like you know what you need or how to do any of it. You are willing to try, but just like carpentry, or automotive mechanics, there is a lot that comes with experience and a lot of money that can be saved by going with a company that has been in the business for a while.

So, while you can get a better price online, who is going to install and program that piece of equipment and make sure it is hooked up correctly? Then, who is goinig to warranty and maintain that product should something go wrong?

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but I would not try building a car from the ground up because a friend of mine knows how to build bicycles. There are some principles that are similar and can transfer over, but in the end, I want an automotive engineer to build my cars thanks. Likewise, if I am spending thousands of dollars on A/V and automation equipment, I would want someone with years of training who has a company that backs him up, and who understands full integration implementation to be there for me.

For example, I would never install pool or HVAC controls myself, though you can buy online (sometimes) some of the better equipment you may need.

Regardless, something like this would take no less than 16-40 hours of work just to design, and a full design w/CAD drawings should be available prior to building the home. If the home is built, a full wire run sheet with CAD drawings for connectivity will help to map out any potential issues.

Basically - it is a lot of work, and a lot of thinking and planning for a good company to put this together. I don't know of any in the FL area, but would think that AMX's (or Crestron's) website may be able to point you toward dealers in your area that can get you going in the right direction.

 

[wadeacevedo]

so about the hvac and pool type systems in my area (key west) there is hi demand for these systems alone as well as many of the systems that are controled by the amx systms however, there isnt anyone who specializes in amx or instaling amx compatible systems and the neriest one is over 3 hours away so geting people down to instal would get expencive and i dont want to pay that much. i have local profecinal help whom i am friends with , as this is a very small town. i myself am a video profecinal (hince the bad gramer and spelling) makeing mostley comercial and the such, but i have a strong understanding of video distrobution. it the actual amx systems that i have a problem with. ive never delt with it before. when i ask for equepmen segestions and layout segestions i am asking about equepment that works the best with the amx systemi also dont now which wiers i should pull to each room and the such.

now dont get me wrongi can spec out a home theater system and instal it my self in a weekend. i know alot abot video and its complesites but what i dont know is what veriables are chaned when you ad the amx.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If you are in Key West I am positive there are AMX dealers.

Are you locked into AMX or have you considered Crestron as well? Crestron is about 3 times the size of AMX and very (VERY!) likely has experienced residential sales reps in your area.

There are forums dedicated to both AMX & Crestron on the web, and both the AMX & Crestron websites include vendor partners who strive to make products that are highly integratable with their control systems. I'm not going to knock AMX, but if the closest dealer is 3 hours away, I would go with Crestron... Actually, if the closest Crestron dealer was 3 hours away, I would go with AMX. You want to work with someone who is close.

Crestron & AMX also have independent programmers who may be available in your area to give you a hand with things. Just check their websites.

www.crestron.com
www.amx.com

 

[RLA]

actualy hireing a pro would cost more becuse your not only paying for the equepment but your also paying for the instalation and travele fees (becuse i dont live in a metropolotin type area and the nerest is over 200 miles away) and so many othe "hiden" fees. if i instal myself i save all those fees and just pay for the equepment, also i get to shop around for the best price when i know what i need

If you want to take on a Home Automation system then my advice would be at the very least to get some consulting and design work done. They will provide you with a plan that you can follow. I use a consultant and designer on big jobs because they can be confusing and aggravating

 

[wadeacevedo]

im not locked to amx or creston so. however i know for a fact that there is no dealer/instaler in key west i have lived hear al my life and i or my family know all the local besnises its a 3x5 mile island so its not that hard but if you know of any i dont know let me know i have done some dealer look up and the nerest dealer of eather system is 3 hours away

 

[BMXTRIX]

Sorry - very likely no Crestron/AMX dealers on the island, but I would call Crestron or AMX directly to find out.

As mentioned above, a systems design engineer can lay out your entire system for you, specify equipment, list wiring requirements, and everything else you would need. Then you could procure all the equipment and install it.

An independent programmer could then program the system off site based on the engineering layout, or a guy that is 3 hours away could do the programming off-site, then drive down for a couple of days (stay at a hotel in Key West off season) and finish and test the program. You can always learn how to program yourself if you want, the software is free and there is lots of stuff online, but people (like me) have jobs programming Crestron because it isn't something anyone can do, and it isn't always easy.

You have lots of options, so the choice is yours... There is always the X10 route as well which isn't nearly as stable and reliable as either Crestron or AMX, but is designed more for do-it-yourselfers. Check www.smarthome.com for a ton of products designed to work with X10.

 

[pikers]

no im serious i want to try and save some money
also i will be reciving some help from a family member who instaled telecom professionally (mostly phones and computer systems)
also i ame curently going through school right now geting educated on digital video and have alredy leard alot about video distribution

Fine, it's just that it'll cost you a lot more to get an AMX dealer to fix it for you. Invariably, there'll be some minor thing that won't work. This is true with Crestron, Elan, and all other distributed systems. It is certainly not something where you can find help online - way too much technical expertise is required to get it right.

In other words, save money by doing it right the first time!