Sealed sub for music 5 bill limit

[Dasunddas]

Thanks. One of the hardest things in dealing w/matters that I'm unfamiliar with is separating what is essential and what is essentially hype. From the looks of the Al for an extra 50 clams I was listing towards the latter. I'm taking a big hit on the plastic this month, so I can't budge on another purchase until after my cycle ends. Maybe next week after gnawing on the options I'll be able to pull the trigger.

I could build a cabinet and that 15" custom installation/I'm buildin' my own box was tempting right at six bills. Adding the shipping is putting me close to seven and in the checkout there was something about sales tax for the various state of residence though it never tallied up any funds.

The five bill limit was already twice the expenditure of most the other components. Moments as this I wonder if indeed I'm improving my almost a grand system by that much. I'm going for a front firing sealed box in a 12 or 15 unless some super sweet close-out/open box comes up. In that case I might have to compromise my audio integrity. Like I didn't when I purchased the F-10s.

I cranked up ole blue eyes to -15db on the display and it goes to -80 to a +10. If I understand correctly that's a mite past 2/3 volume. I don't have a clue w/volume is expressed in those terms.

 

[Dasunddas]

I see this kit mentioned in another thread.

I note this speaker has a maximum rating of 900 wrms 4 ohms. Is there any reason that a lower rated amp from 250-500W couldn't be used if you planned on playing at lower volumes? I'm only pushing a maximim of 95w a channel on two speakers rated 100rms and they never see more than 3/4 of that power.

As an example the Dayton Audio SPA250 250 Watt Subwoofer Plate Amplifier. Measured power output: 156 watts RMS into 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD, 252 watts RMS 4 ohms.

The spkr kit is at an attractive price. Even more so if I could employ a lower rated/less expense amp. Especially as my desire is music only w/no desire to shake windows. Besides, the square table that the AVR rests on is just the right dimensions betwixt the legs/below the top for the big box to slide through w/ease.

 

[shadyJ]

That 18" kit is a bit more work, you have to glue together the pieces, deal with the finish, deal with the damping, make a hole for the binding posts or plate amp. Will it give you more output even with a lesser amp, yes, about 3 dB more overall for the same wattage level, which is not insignificant, but not huge either. I think it would sound nice though.

 

[Dasunddas]

Thanks ShadyJ for the info. I've seen online suggestions that a speaker should be rated 1.4X the amp to 2x w/ohms being the same. I see talk about clipping that as I understand is a horn/tweeter issue. I also note the BASH 300 wrms amp. If it was at sale price then I would be looking right at five bills. Which is roughly the same as the SVS though it was 370wrms as I recall 12" and complete.

I realize I'm not obtaining the same volume available w/spkr running a lower powered amp, but as long as there's no risk to amp/sub I'm fine. As well I understand this kit is more labour intensive. Merely weigh options, yet I need to make sure my idea has practical merit.

 

[shadyJ]

Realistically that kit is going to be a bit more than 500. There is also the finish, unless you like the look of bare MDF. You will also want to line the interior cabinet walls with a bit of glued stuffing, but that wouldn't be expensive. You might also want to put some feet on that sub. You can save a little bit of money by going with an external amplifier. It would beat the hell out of the SVS sub though. If it were me, I would go with the 500 watt BASH plate amp. If you already have the tools and woodworking experience to deal with it, I would so go for that kit.

This kit might make a bit more sense for you. You lose about 2 dB of loudness for the same wattage level, but that is relatively slight. You save about $100. It has the additional advantage of being in stock. That kit, plus the BASH 500, will theoretically have a 1 dB headroom advantage over the 18" kit with 250 watt amp, and cost slightly less. It also weighs less, costs less to ship, and can fit in more places due to its smaller size (not that it's a small sub).

 

[Dasunddas]

I'd slap something on for a finish and it would rest on carpet under a table. I can see the reasoning for the BASH 500 over the 300. My thought was that my music is probably played at 35-75 w per channel, 1/3-2/3 of available power and I really shouldn't need that much power, e.g. 500W, for a sub even if it was a 900w max 18".

So, I guesstamate the BASH 300 is plenty for my style and I might catch it on sale as the 500 is now. I was also hoping that I might squeeze a little more longevity out of the sub by running it at lower power levels. Granted, I could twist the knob on the 500 to achieve the same low volume level and the additional cost wouldn't be considered prohibitive by any stretch. I take note that the 500 has an external heatsink and possibly some other features unbeknownst to me.

The plus about not be currently available is the time awarded me to snoop around, compare and glean a mite more knowledge.

 

[shadyJ]

You have some good points. Certainly if you will never stress the sub, there is no sense in getting a more powerful amp. On the other hand, when you get a taste of some high quality, capable bass, you might want to press it further, but this would be true no matter what amp or driver you end up with. As far as longitivity goes, a 500 might be a tad better than a 300 as the 500 might be less stressed by the same volume level. Better thermal handling, like the heatsink for instance, will help in that respect.

 

[Dasunddas]

I'm trying to grasp the concept and differing applications. I know that whopper would look menacing lurking just under the square table.

As I understand, by taking the bass duties away from the two 6.5" woofers, w/powered sub, I'll have that much more available to push the midrange and the horn. So, for example, if the bass takes up a third/half the output of the AVR I'll increase by the same amount through diverting the low end into the powered sub. My 95 w a channel would in essence become a 125/140 w & I'd dial in the sub to match.

I see the SPA250 250 Watt weighs 13.40 lbs the SPA500 500W 20lbs, yet the BASH 300/500 come in at 3.75 & 6 lbs. That's quite the difference in weight. What's the deal w/such discrepancy?

 

[shadyJ]

I'm trying to grasp the concept and differing applications. I know that whopper would look menacing lurking just under the square table.

As I understand, by taking the bass duties away from the two 6.5" woofers, w/powered sub, I'll have that much more available to push the midrange and the horn. So, for example, if the bass takes up a third/half the output of the AVR I'll increase by the same amount through diverting the low end into the powered sub. My 95 w a channel would in essence become a 125/140 w & I'd dial in the sub to match.

Yes, by having the subs deal with bass, you preserve more amplitude capacity for the band for your mains. What's nice about that is bass takes up a lot of dynamic range, so you end up freeing up quite a bit of headroom. However, it doesn't actually make your receiver more powerful, just more efficiently used. In short, it'll be better, but mostly only for when you want to crank the volume. Also by taking the bass load of the mains, you do substantially lower their distortion, which is good for lower volume use, but still may not be perceptible. It'll sound better overall if you dial it in correctly.

 

[ImcLoud]

I agree, cutting the lows from your fronts has a lot of positive results....

 

[Dasunddas]

"more efficiently used ... substantially lower their distortion" I like the way you said it correctly. Win/win. It makes sense that I'd only potentially notice a better sound from the little woofers at higher volumes. I wouldn't think the horns would be effected save indirectly by having a cleaner room.

I guess these speakers have broken in after a couple of weeks of use. I fired up some Tony Bennett of the 60's at 3/4 or so volume and it appears to these ears loud though clear. His voice was much more dynamic in his youth. I always get a kick when I hear, "Let Sputnik zoom Its way up above". I'm anxious to hear him through a sub along w/Gerry Mulligan's baritone sax.

Now I'm jonesin' for some, Jazz Giants '58.

ETA:
Cruising the OSD I realized that I could save differing Bass/Treble settings for the various components. I had been listening to a classical station and on a whim cruised through the dial as I stumble upon the undeniable licks of the Eurhythmics. When Annie Lennox belts out, Sweet Dreams I crank it up only to rush to OSD drop the bass and then add treble whilst playing w/volume. I didn't realize at the time that it stored that tuner setting separate from the cd/dvd. I can only imagine how that pulsating beat must sound w/righteous sub.

I don't wish to give appearance of ungratefulness or demanding, yet my curiosity is piqued over the weight difference in the Bash/Dayton amps. I see perhaps an Al vs steel construction and the large heatsink design on the Daytons, but I feel there has to more to the story.