Sansui turntable FR-3060 help

[carlthess40]

I have a near mint Sansui turntable FR-3060
When I tried to use it the belt was lose
So I got a new belt. With the old and with the NEW belt the speed is way to fast. For the 33.5 speed it’s at 44 plus and at 45 it’s at 52plus speed. I’m using the iPhone app RPM and everything I have found about this app is that it’s pretty close to being spot on
The table even has spare capstan and I installed it, the old one had some old belt rubber on it. And after replacing the capstan the speed is even faster. I can’t find any info online other the people saying they had or have the same problem and the would rap Black electrical tape around the platter belt ring and some had somewhat good luck at getting the speed down to 33.5
I don’t really care to do this band-Aid fix
I like to find out if there is some type of resister or capacitor or something on the motor speed control board that I could replace to get the speed back under control to its proper speed’s.
Thanks and anyone you can help. Please let me know.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a near mint Sansui turntable FR-3060
When I tried to use it the belt was lose
So I got a new belt. With the old and with the NEW belt the speed is way to fast. For the 33.5 speed it’s at 44 plus and at 45 it’s at 52plus speed. I’m using the iPhone app RPM and everything I have found about this app is that it’s pretty close to being spot on
The table even has spare capstan and I installed it, the old one had some old belt rubber on it. And after replacing the capstan the speed is even faster. I can’t find any info online other the people saying they had or have the same problem and the would rap Black electrical tape around the platter belt ring and some had somewhat good luck at getting the speed down to 33.5
I don’t really care to do this band-Aid fix
I like to find out if there is some type of resister or capacitor or something on the motor speed control board that I could replace to get the speed back under control to its proper speed’s.
Thanks and anyone you can help. Please let me know.

Other people have had the problem and say a thinner belt solves the problem. This has to be nonsense unless the belt is too wide for the capstan and hitting both the 33 and 45 spindles.

I looked at the service manual and this is a simple 4 pole synchronous motor running from the AC mains frequency.

I suspect that you may have a 50 Hz pulley, although the speed you record is even faster then that calculates out to be. But the first thing to do is see if you can find a definite 60 Hz pulley.

Most likely though Sansui had a bunch of motors and or capstan pulleys out of spec.

I hold those older Far Eastern turntables in low esteem personally.

The tape idea sounds horrible. Probably best to ditch that turntable and get a better one. That is an automatic turntable in any case which should be avoided like the plague. Always use turntables that are completely manual.

 

[carlthess40]

I have a near mint Sansui turntable FR-3060
When I tried to use it the belt was lose
So I got a new belt. With the old and with the NEW belt the speed is way to fast. For the 33.5 speed it’s at 44 plus and at 45 it’s at 52plus speed. I’m using the iPhone app RPM and everything I have found about this app is that it’s pretty close to being spot on
The table even has spare capstan and I installed it, the old one had some old belt rubber on it. And after replacing the capstan the speed is even faster. I can’t find any info online other the people saying they had or have the same problem and the would rap Black electrical tape around the platter belt ring and some had somewhat good luck at getting the speed down to 33.5
I don’t really care to do this band-Aid fix
I like to find out if there is some type of resister or capacitor or something on the motor speed control board that I could replace to get the speed back under control to its proper speed’s.
Thanks and anyone you can help. Please let me know.

You are a real Debbie downer. Not everyone has a lot of disposable income to throw away a perfectly beautiful pieces of audio gear like this
Yes I’ve checked the 50/60 hz switch. It’s a 60hz. It says it’s a USA model and both the capstan are the same down to the mm
And no I’m no going to trash this table for a peace of junk made now a days
I’m not a newbie with this stuff. I’m 52 and had my first tube amp and Klipsch and infinity speakers when I was 12. And yes I paid for them myself. I take it as a insult to just trash something that just needs a little repair. I’ll take my 45 plus year old table over most of the new ones out today that cost under 1000
Sorry but you got me a little pissy when you said to trash it and that it’s junk

 

[carlthess40]

Sorry about my ranting there. But I come from a generation that things where made to last and be repaired if something went bad
Not like today’s just that when something goes wrong, you just trash it and buy a new one. I guess that’s way I have car and home audio gear that’s 40 plus years old and still works just fine and works a hell of a lot better then most of today’s junk
And yea, if it breaks. It can be repaired, not like today crap

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry about my ranting there. But I come from a generation that things where made to last and be repaired if something went bad
Not like today’s just that when something goes wrong, you just trash it and buy a new one. I guess that’s way I have car and home audio gear that’s 40 plus years old and still works just fine and works a hell of a lot better then most of today’s junk
And yea, if it breaks. It can be repaired, not like today crap

I'm not telling you to buy a new one. Two of my turntables are 60 years old. However I down loaded the service manual for your turntable and there was no way to change the speed. Under speed problems it just said to change the capstan. You already have. So I could not see anything from manual about this. However there is nothing in the circuit to change the speed, just the voltage as there is a transformer. It says in the manual that there are 50 and 60 Hz capstan pulleys, and to take to a service center if changing from 50 to 60 Hz or vice versa.
So without having on the bench then I don't know what further to advise. I hate to tell you to install a new motor and you still have a problem. I really can not get any further guidance from the service manual, which is far from truly enlightening anyway.

Anyhow if you come up against the brick wall there are a lot of good older turntables out there to be had at reasonable cost. There were lots of Thorens TD 150s and 160s made. They come up all the time on eBay. They were made in Switzerland and use Swiss Papst synchronous motors.

This looks like a good one to go after, and much better than what you picked up. You can sell yours parts or repair.

 

[carlthess40]

Well I found out what was going on
And a few of you guys were right about the 50/60hz issue.
I did measure he old and new ( or old unused ) capstan
The difference is so small and with my eyes not being so good anymore, there was a 1/2 mm differences between the two. Neither one was marked , they are more. I cleaned the capstan that was on the motor and polished it very well and checked the measurements several times. The little drawers caliber I have is solid brass and a little dull and somewhat hard to read. After cleaning it and the capstan, I finally could see just a small 1/2 of a mm of the capstan that had The burnt rubber on it was the smaller one. I reinstalled it and ran the RPM app and now only have a 1% speed difference
Today or sometime this week I will hook it up and run a app that monitors the sound from a reference album and see how close to 33.5rpm it is
Just want to say thank you for everyone’s thoughts and input about this project and getting me on the right path to fix it
Here are a few pics

 

[TLS Guy]

Well I found out what was going on
And a few of you guys were right about the 50/60hz issue.
I did measure he old and new ( or old unused ) capstan
The difference is so small and with my eyes not being so good anymore, there was a 1/2 mm differences between the two. Neither one was marked , they are more. I cleaned the capstan that was on the motor and polished it very well and checked the measurements several times. The little drawers caliber I have is solid brass and a little dull and somewhat hard to read. After cleaning it and the capstan, I finally could see just a small 1/2 of a mm of the capstan that had The burnt rubber on it was the smaller one. I reinstalled it and ran the RPM app and now only have a 1% speed difference
Today or sometime this week I will hook it up and run a app that monitors the sound from a reference album and see how close to 33.5rpm it is
Just want to say thank you for everyone’s thoughts and input about this project and getting me on the right path to fix it
Here are a few pics

I'm glad you got it sorted. So the service manual was correct. So you have both 50 and 60 Hz capstans. A 1% speed error is very typical for belt drive asynchronous motor turntables of that era. It was actually done intentionally. The Dust Bug was in common usage world wide then. I always use mine. When you use the Dust Bug and put the stylus in the groove the speed is usually absolutely exact. So essentially is done to compensate for the drag of the Dust Bug.

Here is my 1966 Thorens TD 150 with SME series 3 arm and Cecil E Watts Dust Bug. As pictured it runs at perfect speed. Without the Dust Bug a little fast.

My other turntables allow you to trim the speed.

This Garrard 301 with Decca ffss pro arm and integrated variable reluctance moving iron cartridge, shows the speed control which is an eddy current brake to the induction motor. You can also see a Decca Brush and Auriol lift and Cecil E. Watts Dust Bug.

This Thorens TD 125 MK II has the motor driven from a solid state oscillator and the frequency can be adjusted with the small central red control. There is an illuminated strobe to set the speed very accurately. It can be viewed though the glass just in front of the adjuster.

All great stuff from a long past era.

 

[carlthess40]

Now I need to find the anti skate weight
I have put one of those stand alone dust bug arms in it so maybe that will put the speed spot on