Same DAC. in different product lines

[lovinthehd]

I saw this, a little bit too geeky for me but the conclusion is that it's good speaker. I tried to find measurements for 500s but couldn't.

It was more to the point of low end response....I didn't see one for the 500 but I only looked for those that measure vs those that prattle on about how it sounded to them in their room with music I don't usually listen to....

 

[Pogre]

I guess you convinced me

But there is a waf so a sub need to be the same..I was looking for a MA W12 sub but it's expeeensive.. I'd love to get some 14" but the one's I'm looking at (MA, Dali..) are just too expensive, I'm never going to get neither one apart from wanting a great sound I want a great looks too. I'm just full of flaws..

Wait, your wife will notice if you buy a different brand? Even if they look like they're from the same line? Which finish would you get for the MAs?

 

[PENG]

I didn't realize they do have a better DACs, but they should for that amount of money.
You say two channel DAC, does that mean the AVR is using this DAC on fronts and even cheaper DACs other channels?

No, Denon (and Marantz too) does not use lower grade ones in the surround channels. The AVR-X8500H uses 8 pieces of the AK4490EQ. Same for the Marantz AV8805 AVP. All other models use the 8 channel AK4458.

AK4490EQ | Audio D/A Converters | PRODUCTS | Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM)

120dB 768kHz / 32-bit 2 ch Premium DAC The AK4490EQ is a new generation of premium 32-bit DAC, with 2 channels of AKM’s VELVET SOUND architecture that has been widely adopted by well-established high-end audio companies.

www.akm.com

デノン、13ch／約1600W出力の “モンスター級” AVアンプ「AVC-X8500H」。HDMI 2.1やAlexaにも対応予定 (2/5) - PHILE WEB

デノン、13ch／約1600W出力の “モンスター級” AVアンプ「AVC-X8500H」。HDMI 2.1やAlexaにも対応予定

www.phileweb.com

Equipped with a total of eight 32-bit 2ch DAC "AK4490"

For D / A conversion , a total of eight 32-bit 2ch DAC chip "Ak4490" of Asahi Kasei Electronics (AKM) is equipped with a 13.2ch D / A conversion circuit. Constitution. This D / A conversion circuit is mounted on a dedicated board and is independent of the video circuit and network circuit to eliminate mutual interference.

D / A conversion circuit board provided independently


In addition, the layout of the D / A conversion circuit, signal lines, and power supply lines is optimized by using a dedicated board. Along with selecting sound quality countermeasures and redesigning the post lifter, the company claims to maximize the performance of the DAC chip.

 

[PENG]

No, Denon (and Marantz too) does not use lower grade ones in the surround channels. The AVR-X8500H uses 8 pieces of the AK4490EQ. Same for the Marantz AV8805 AVP. All other models use the 8 channel AK4458.

AK4490EQ | Audio D/A Converters | PRODUCTS | Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM)

120dB 768kHz / 32-bit 2 ch Premium DAC The AK4490EQ is a new generation of premium 32-bit DAC, with 2 channels of AKM’s VELVET SOUND architecture that has been widely adopted by well-established high-end audio companies.

www.akm.com

デノン、13ch／約1600W出力の “モンスター級” AVアンプ「AVC-X8500H」。HDMI 2.1やAlexaにも対応予定 (2/5) - PHILE WEB

デノン、13ch／約1600W出力の “モンスター級” AVアンプ「AVC-X8500H」。HDMI 2.1やAlexaにも対応予定

www.phileweb.com

Equipped with a total of eight 32-bit 2ch DAC "AK4490"

For D / A conversion , a total of eight 32-bit 2ch DAC chip "Ak4490" of Asahi Kasei Electronics (AKM) is equipped with a 13.2ch D / A conversion circuit. Constitution. This D / A conversion circuit is mounted on a dedicated board and is independent of the video circuit and network circuit to eliminate mutual interference.

D / A conversion circuit board provided independently


In addition, the layout of the D / A conversion circuit, signal lines, and power supply lines is optimized by using a dedicated board. Along with selecting sound quality countermeasures and redesigning the post lifter, the company claims to maximize the performance of the DAC chip.

For some reason the US and UK sites don't have as much info as some other sites such as:

AVC-X8500H開発者インタビュー | Denon 公式ブログ

ハイグレードなパワーアンプを13基も搭載し、イマーシブサウンドを極めたモンスターAVアンプ、AVC-X8500Hが登場。10年ぶりとなるデノンのAVアンプの新たなフラッグシップモデルについて、その開発コンセプトや製品に込められた想いを設計者にインタビューしました。

www.denon.jp

Denon AVC-X8500H 13.2 Channel AV Amplifier Review

Denon has cooked up a storm with its latest AV Amplifier. How good? Read on to see if Denon's AVC-X8500H earns just one, or a trio of Michelin stars.

www.stereo.net.au

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

Wait, your wife will notice if you buy a different brand? Even if they look like they're from the same line? Which finish would you get for the MAs?

Oh man...you don't know my wife We are both into classics, wood stuff. Our house is much like that.
We'll go for a walnut MAs. She also likes the Klipsch sub, it has an orange driver after all I have to read some reviews on the Klipsch SPL-150, it seems like you get much for that money.

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

No, Denon (and Marantz too) does not use lower grade ones in the surround channels. The AVR-X8500H uses 8 pieces of the AK4490EQ. Same for the Marantz AV8805 AVP. All other models use the 8 channel AK4458.

AK4490EQ | Audio D/A Converters | PRODUCTS | Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM)

120dB 768kHz / 32-bit 2 ch Premium DAC The AK4490EQ is a new generation of premium 32-bit DAC, with 2 channels of AKM’s VELVET SOUND architecture that has been widely adopted by well-established high-end audio companies.

www.akm.com

デノン、13ch／約1600W出力の “モンスター級” AVアンプ「AVC-X8500H」。HDMI 2.1やAlexaにも対応予定 (2/5) - PHILE WEB

デノン、13ch／約1600W出力の “モンスター級” AVアンプ「AVC-X8500H」。HDMI 2.1やAlexaにも対応予定

www.phileweb.com

Equipped with a total of eight 32-bit 2ch DAC "AK4490"

For D / A conversion , a total of eight 32-bit 2ch DAC chip "Ak4490" of Asahi Kasei Electronics (AKM) is equipped with a 13.2ch D / A conversion circuit. Constitution. This D / A conversion circuit is mounted on a dedicated board and is independent of the video circuit and network circuit to eliminate mutual interference.

D / A conversion circuit board provided independently


In addition, the layout of the D / A conversion circuit, signal lines, and power supply lines is optimized by using a dedicated board. Along with selecting sound quality countermeasures and redesigning the post lifter, the company claims to maximize the performance of the DAC chip.

This is indeed some great piece of engineering, for a great price. I stumbled across some jap-websites but I get deterred pretty quickly 8500 is a beast but I cannot imagine who would need all these channels. I mean I know there are many. I thought they might come out with a 9 channels model with all the high end stuff in it. But I'm not a marketing expert which is obvious

I've seen that Onkyo TX-RZ840 has AKM 4458 but with higher specs 384khz/32bit than in older ones. It was a surprise they didn't put that chip in 6014 or x3600. They are all 2019 models I think.

 

[PENG]

This is indeed some great piece of engineering, for a great price. I stumbled across some jap-websites but I get deterred pretty quickly 8500 is a beast but I cannot imagine who would need all these channels. I mean I know there are many. I thought they might come out with a 9 channels model with all the high end stuff in it. But I'm not a marketing expert which is obvious

I've seen that Onkyo TX-RZ840 has AKM 4458 but with higher specs 384khz/32bit than in older ones. It was a surprise they didn't put that chip in 6014 or x3600. They are all 2019 models I think.

Just a matter of interest, did you know that Denon's flag ship AVP-A1HDC1 has even more stereo DACs in it, 14 in total, that is one Stereo DAC per channel in order to implement the "fully end to end differential" scheme? Unexpectedly the PCM1796 used was only second from the top though still comparable to the AK4490 in specs. The top TI chip, the PCM1792 was used in their flag ship AVR, the AVR-5805, that top DAC was also found in Yamaha's best ever ARV, the RX-Z9.

@AcuDefTechGuy will tell you how heavy that thing is and how mad he was when it failed on him after only a few years (7, may be 8, I think...). So having the best DAC is probably not a good indicator of overall quality.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just a matter of interest, did you know that Denon's flag ship AVP-A1HDC1 has even more stereo DACs in it, 14 in total, that is one Stereo DAC per channel in order to implement the "fully end to end differential" scheme? Unexpectedly the PCM1796 used was only second from the top though still comparable to the AK4490 in specs. The top TI chip, the PCM1792 was used in their flag ship AVR, the AVR-5805, that top DAC was also found in Yamaha's best ever ARV, the RX-Z9.

@AcuDefTechGuy will tell you how heavy that thing is and how mad he was when it failed on him after only a few years (7, may be 8, I think...). So having the best DAC is probably not a good indicator of overall quality.

I think Simple and Low-Heat design is your friend in electronics.

Complex and Higher-Heat design is your enemy.

I don't think many of us can really hear the difference in DACs or "Fully Balanced Input-to-Output" designs.

I just shipped my Denon AVR-5308 to a buyer. The total box weight was 80 LBS (UPS Ground cost was about $100). Yeah, the 5308 and AVP-A1HD were heavy.

My AVP-A1HD failed after about 8 years. I believe Grassy's (another AH member here) AVP-A1HD also failed him after 8 years. I think he now owns a McIntosh AVP.

 

[Gmoney]

I think Simple and Low-Heat design is your friend in electronics.

Complex and Higher-Heat design is your enemy.

I don't think many of us can really hear the difference in DACs or "Fully Balanced Input-to-Output" designs.

I just shipped my Denon AVR-5308 to a buyer. The total box weight was 80 LBS (UPS Ground cost was about $100). Yeah, the 5308 and AVP-A1HD were heavy.

My AVP-A1HD failed after about 8 years. I believe Grassy's (another AH member here) AVP-A1HD also failed him after 8 years. I think he now owns a McIntosh AVP.

I sure there’s a Tech somewhere to fix it has to be a man made it man can fix it. Get it to a Audio Engineer

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

I'm sure these old pieces of equipment were monsters in any good sense of that word.

After all this info, I realized that one can buy great audio equipment for not so much money. And that SQ difference between some avrs is not so great as the price is.

 

[PENG]

I'm sure these old pieces of equipment were monsters in any good sense of that word.

After all this info, I realized that one can buy great audio equipment for not so much money. And that SQ difference between some avrs is not so great as the price is.

True, ASR just measured a $5,900 Jeff Rowland, worse than a $999 Denon receiver or a $1199 Yamaha in numbers that matter. If free, I'll take one, but if I must use it for music, I would rather have the Denon or Yamaha receiver, and yes, even just for two channel use.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I sure there’s a Tech somewhere to fix it has to be a man made it man can fix it. Get it to a Audio Engineer

The Denon techs couldn't fix it under the full BEST BUY STORE warranty.

With a full Best Buy Store Warranty, I would think the techs could do whatever they wanted and just charge it to Best Buy Store, right?

They changed out the "Main Audio-Video Circuit Board", which they said costs $1,000 alone.

So it became too much of a hassle for an 8YR old component.

Sure, I could have continued looking for another tech on my own. But how much is that going to cost me in the end?

Another point is that if they are AUTHORIZED Denon Techs, they should know a lot more than other techs, right?

So if authorized Denon techs who work on Denon and Marantz units all the time couldn't fix it, what's the odds of some random techs fixing it?

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

True, ASR just measured a $5,900 Jeff Rowland, worse than a $999 Denon receiver or a $1199 Yamaha in numbers that matter. If free, I'll take one, but if I must use it for music, I would rather have the Denon or Yamaha receiver, and yes, even just for two channel use.

Roger that.
Tnx!

 

[Gmoney]

The Denon techs couldn't fix it under the full BEST BUY STORE warranty.

With a full Best Buy Store Warranty, I would think the techs could do whatever they wanted and just charge it to Best Buy Store, right?

They changed out the "Main Audio-Video Circuit Board", which they said costs $1,000 alone.

So it became too much of a hassle for an 8YR old component.

Sure, I could have continued looking for another tech on my own. But how much is that going to cost me in the end?

Another point is that if they are AUTHORIZED Denon Techs, they should know a lot more than other techs, right?

So if authorized Denon techs who work on Denon and Marantz units all the time couldn't fix it, what's the odds of some random techs fixing it?

Just seems not right that a high end pre pro go to waste. You paid a lot for it just seems that it can’t be repaired. I see now why you got frustrated with the whole thing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just seems not right that a high end pre pro go to waste. You paid a lot for it just seems that it can’t be repaired. I see now why you got frustrated with the whole thing.

I was upset for sure.

But I was very happy with the Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5000.

So the AVP-A1 was a hard lesson learned. It might have even influenced @PENG to buy AVRs, instead of more Pre-pros.

Why spend big bucks on Separates if they don't last that long and can't be fixed if they break?

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

Guys, a quick one.
I downloaded some .cue files, can I copy that to usb and will the avr read it? It is a 5.1 channel music.
I tried to convert it to dts audio but it shrinks 450mb cue file to a 56mb dts

 

[PENG]

I was upset for sure.

But I was very happy with the Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5000.

So the AVP-A1 was a hard lesson learned. It might have even influenced @PENG to buy AVRs, instead of more Pre-pros.

Why spend big bucks on Separates if they don't last that long and can't be fixed if they break?

I am not rich, so I quickly learnt my lesson when I realized my Marantz AV was absolute in less than 3 years. My cheap AVR is doing everything I need and if and when I feel like updating again in order to get the new features that I want in say 3 years, it won't hurt as much. I do expect and hope my power amps will last for at least another 10 years.

 

[lovinthehd]

Guys, a quick one.
I downloaded some .cue files, can I copy that to usb and will the avr read it? It is a 5.1 channel music.
I tried to convert it to dts audio but it shrinks 450mb cue file to a 56mb dts

Not listed in my avr manual as a playable file for usb memory devices nor did I know what it was (but always interested in multich music files....), doesn't seem the .cue file is the actual music.... https://fileinfo.com/extension/cue

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

Not listed in my avr manual as a playable file for usb memory devices nor did I know what it was (but always interested in multich music files....), doesn't seem the .cue file is the actual music.... https://fileinfo.com/extension/cue

Yes man, I mixed something in my head. It is a surround audio in .wav and .cue file was in the folder..

I don't want to contaminate this thread, I posted my concerns into a new one (didn't find alike).