SACD "Surround"

[pggood]

I'm wondering what is actually meant on the SACDs when it lists "Surround" on the package. It seems that the surround may be limited, unless I'm messing up my configuration some how.

Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" does not appear to contain a subwoofer track, while Mozart "The 4 Horn Concertos" does not appear to have either a center track or subwoofer track. This is very disappoipnting as I've been purchasing SACDs over DVD-audio for the reputed better quality.

Heres my setup: Pioneer 45a DVD, Denon AVR-2105. I use the Ext-in setting on the Denon when listening to music. I have the Pioneer setup to output multichannel in SACD and have all of the speakers on. When playing DVD audios with the same configuration I always get both center and subwoofer.

Does anyone else have these recordings and am I correct that they are limited in their surround output?

Thanks
Phil

 

[Colonel_Tomb]

The "Kind of Blue" SACD most certainly has a subwoofer track; I'm playing it right now. (It's not wall-shaking bass, of course, but if you turn up the subwoofer level, it's obvious.)

Keep in mind that the SACD spec allows up to six channels, but producers can use the channels as they see fit. Everything I own is either 2.0 (stereo) or 5.1; I've read that some classical works are mixed in 4.0, and are appropriate as such, but I've never encountered any. I can't explain your experience with Miles Davis (I recommend that you double-check), but the Mozart piece sounds like a prime candidate for a 4.0 mix. Do the Mozart liner notes tell you anything about the mixing or mastering? The notes for "Kind of Blue" don't tell us anything.

I'm not familiar with the Pioneer DV-45A, but your setup sounds right to me. I use a Denon DVD-2900, and it has indicator lights that show what channels are active for the disk currently loaded. Do you get a visual indication on the Pioneer? Every so often I'll play a DVD-V that defaults to 2.0, and I'll glance at those lights, and it'll remind me to change the soundtrack to 5.1.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

I though Hi-Res music had no LFE-track, but used the subwoofer only when applied with bass management?

 

[Colonel_Tomb]

My earlier reply was misleading, and I want to apologize and straighten it out. My preamp (Adcom GTP-880) allows analog bass management on the multi-channel analog input (and I use it), so I always get subwoofer output no matter what channels are provided by the source. (That is, in my DVD player, I set all my channels to LARGE, then the preamp redirects everything below 80 Hz from the front, center and surround channels to the subwoofer.) So, just because I could hear subwoofer output on "Kind of Blue" doesn't mean it's coming from the LFE channel. On the other hand, as I mentioned before, the DVD player shows all six channels as active, so I'm pretty sure there's something on the LFE channel itself.

Beware, meanwhile, that anyone using any form of bass management will always hear subwoofer output, even if it has been redirected from other channels. My understanding is that your DVD player doesn't have bass management for SACD/DVD-A, so you're hearing it "straight," which is the purest test. For me to simulate your environment, I'd have to switch off my analog bass management, which means flipping a switch on the back of the preamp (difficult to get to). What we really need are three things:

1. Someone who owns the "Kind of Blue" SACD.

2. Someone who's using DVD-player-based digital bass management.

3. Then we need that person to set all the speakers to LARGE, play "Kind of Blue," and see what he or she hears.

'Course I could just flip that switch behind my preamp, and I might.

I though Hi-Res music had no LFE-track, but used the subwoofer only when applied with bass management?

No.