SACD help

[ElBlanco]

Hello,

I'm new so I'm not sure if this is the right place but I need help on SACD and my current home set up.

Background: Years ago I had a Sony SACD player and played through a Pioneer reciever. I remember I had to run cables for each channel (Left, Back, etc.) to play the SACD disc. The reciever died on me and the replacement didn't have the inputs for each cable. Through the years the discs went missing.

I recently upgraded everything and have a Denon AVR-9960h reciever and Sony Sony UBP-X800M2 Blu Ray player. I recently went down a rabbit hole of replacing my Dylan collection. First all the Bootleg Series and now the albums. Inwasnt going to worry about the SACD discs but found a deal on the MOFI Blonde on Blonde Hybrid and ordered it. I heard the regular disc side sounds great and figured I wouldn't be able to play the SACD side. However, the Blu Ray will play SACD but I'm not sure if the Denon will decode it. It doesn't have the inputs that the previous reciever had. I can't find anything on the Denon being able to decode the SACD signal or if the signal can be sent thru HDMI. Anyone have experience with this reciever/SACD? If it won't play as is, is there something I can do so that it will? It won't kill me if I can't but I would like to hear SACD if possible. I have some Blu Ray audio discs (Chicago Quad) and they play great but some things are only available on SACD.

Sorry so long but I thought I'd cover everything in case more info was needed. Again, not sure if this is the right area and if not, I'd appreciate if you could tell me where to post.

Thanks

 

[PENG]

Hello,

I'm new so I'm not sure if this is the right place but I need help on SACD and my current home set up.

Background: Years ago I had a Sony SACD player and played through a Pioneer reciever. I remember I had to run cables for each channel (Left, Back, etc.) to play the SACD disc. The reciever died on me and the replacement didn't have the inputs for each cable. Through the years the discs went missing.

I recently upgraded everything and have a Denon AVR-9960h reciever and Sony Sony UBP-X800M2 Blu Ray player. I recently went down a rabbit hole of replacing my Dylan collection. First all the Bootleg Series and now the albums. Inwasnt going to worry about the SACD discs but found a deal on the MOFI Blonde on Blonde Hybrid and ordered it. I heard the regular disc side sounds great and figured I wouldn't be able to play the SACD side. However, the Blu Ray will play SACD but I'm not sure if the Denon will decode it. It doesn't have the inputs that the previous reciever had. I can't find anything on the Denon being able to decode the SACD signal or if the signal can be sent thru HDMI. Anyone have experience with this reciever/SACD? If it won't play as is, is there something I can do so that it will? It won't kill me if I can't but I would like to hear SACD if possible. I have some Blu Ray audio discs (Chicago Quad) and they play great but some things are only available on SACD.

Sorry so long but I thought I'd cover everything in case more info was needed. Again, not sure if this is the right area and if not, I'd appreciate if you could tell me where to post.

Thanks

Did you mean AVR-S960H? That one won't likely play SACD. For Denon, you would have to try reading up on the AVR-X3000H series, the AVR-X4000H series such as the X4400H through X4700H should be able to decode SACD. You should still be able to play your SACD discs if you set the Sony to output PCM, that is let the Sony decode the signal instead.

 

[ElBlanco]

Yes, sorry about that. It's the 960h. Thanks for the info. I just upgraded to this one almost a year ago. I'll look those receivers up tho since we are finishing our basement and will need another reciever at that time. I bought this one for the Atmos speakers but since I can't run wires in the ceiling, I'm using the toppers and I'm not really impressed. The plan was to move this receiver down there but if the ones you listed are better and have the Atmos speaker hook ups, I may go with that. I'm happy with the Blu Ray audio but dammit, Dylan's on SACD and, well, it's Bob so I need to have them. Really kicking myself for losing those hybrids.

Thanks again. I appreciate the advice.

 

[vader540is]

Yes, sorry about that. It's the 960h. Thanks for the info. I just upgraded to this one almost a year ago. I'll look those receivers up tho since we are finishing our basement and will need another reciever at that time. I bought this one for the Atmos speakers but since I can't run wires in the ceiling, I'm using the toppers and I'm not really impressed. The plan was to move this receiver down there but if the ones you listed are better and have the Atmos speaker hook ups, I may go with that. I'm happy with the Blu Ray audio but dammit, Dylan's on SACD and, well, it's Bob so I need to have them. Really kicking myself for losing those hybrids.

Thanks again. I appreciate the advice.

Yeah you need a Denon X series. They can decode DSD.

I have a Denon X3400H & Oppo BDP103 connected via HDMI and I have zero issues with SACD

 

[Trebdp83]

One can still enjoy a SACD's multi channel track using the Denon AVR-S960H. Go into the audio settings of the Sony UBP-X800M2. Change DSD output from Auto to Off. This will result in DSD decoding and PCM output. Make sure the player is also set to play the SACD layer and not the CD layer for hybrid discs. Now, play a multi channel SACD. The receiver should display a MULTI CHANNEL PCM 5.1 signal of 176.4kHz.

 

[Trell]

Some Denon AVR have anaemic bass bass response when receiving DSD versus using having the player convert DSD to PCM, so I use PCM for SACD to my Denon AVR-X4200W.

Low bass output when listening to SACDs using the DSD...

Below are a two posts from the Denon 4311 thread regarding low bass output when listening to SACDs using the DSD setting of my Oppo 83SE. My findings although totally unscientific indicate that there is an issue with low bass output with the DSD setting for both MCH and 2CH SACDs. I have read...

www.avsforum.com

 

[lovinthehd]

Looking at the 960's manual, it can handle 2ch DSD via USB or DLNA. So for multich like was said use the player to convert (hopefully it's not limited to 2ch in that respect). I use multich SACDs via hdmi from some Sony bluray players and an Oppo no problem....but with Denons that can handle that via hdmi (and mine still have the multich analog inputs but I don't use them).

 

[Trebdp83]

I was able to get a multi channel PCM 176.4kHz signal from SACDs to a Denon S760H using a Sony UBP-X800 after switching DSD output from Auto to Off. All of my Onkyos and the Yamaha can handle DSD.

 

[lovinthehd]

I was able to get a multi channel PCM 176.4kHz signal from SACDs to a Denon S760H using a Sony UBP-X800 after switching DSD output from Auto to Off. All of my Onkyos and the Yamaha can handle DSD.

I also missed the same model number bdp player when I made my comment

 

[Trebdp83]

I can’t say it resulted in a difference I could hear, but it use to kill me when conversion was necessary for any signal and the display showed PCM.

 

[Verdinut]

Why do you, guys, prefer the DSD over the PCM audio format? Both formats can reproduce high quality audio.

Have look at what Benjamin Zwickel, owner of Mojo Audio, has to say about those two audio formats:

When people claim to hear significant differences between PCM and DSD it is not the difference between the formats that they are hearing, but most often the difference in the quality of the digital remastering or the native format their specific DAC decodes. Delta-Sigma DACs decode native DSD and R-2R DACs decode native PCM.

DSD vs. PCM: Myth vs. Truth

DSD vs. PCM: Myth vs Truth

www.mojo-audio.com

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't particularly. I like some of the recordings for multich audio I've found on SACD. How it's converted isn't particularly important, altho I suppose it's best to just leave it to the avr in a digital chain in my case. The quality of the recording is going to outstrip the medium used still....

 

[Trebdp83]

No preference for me really. Bought DTS CDs, DVD-Audios and SACDs years ago to try out multi channel music discs. There are a few Atmos blu-ray albums I’d like to get sometime.

 

[lovinthehd]

No preference for me really. Bought DTS CDs, DVD-Audios and SACDs years ago to try out multi channel music discs. There are a few Atmos blu-ray albums I’d like to get sometime.

Yeah me too, just one format for some content made available that way....

 

[ElBlanco]

I didn't get notified about additional responses and I appreciate all the help. So Blonde on Blonde came today and Im not sure what to think. It's playing with no problem and stating Super Audio on the display, DSD 2 channel. The receiver stated PCM Digital. All I did was put it in. I didn't change any settings.

As far as sound, I can only compare it to memory of the 2003 hybrid remasters for stereo and the mono version. It's obviously different than the mono and, this could be wishful thinking, I think it sounds better than the 2003 but I haven't heard that in over 10 Years. The guitars are definitely brighter than I remember.

As far as mti channel, I don't know if this has a surround mix. It doesn't state it does on the MOFI website or on the packaging. I can't remember if the 2003 had a 5.1 mix. It was weird the ones that had 5.1 when those came out. Highway 61 did not but Bringing all Back Home did even though half is just acoustic.

So I'm on track 3 and yeah, I know this song by heart and remember the 2003 mix and this is definitely cleaner.

I've attached pics but to me it seems like I'm getting the SACD layer and not the regular CD layer. If it was playing the SACD layer, the reciever shouldn't pick it up and I'd hear nothing, right?

I'd buy the other 60s Dylan they have but theyre mono mixes and the mono set covers that.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, looks like you're playing the 2ch sacd/dsd layer. I don't remember any of the Mobile Fidelity offerings coming in multich, the only two I have on optical disc are two ch. My Blonde on Blonde is multich, but a Columbia release

 

[ElBlanco]

That's the one I had. Lost them all in a move. Now I'm curious to hear the regular stereo version that is out and see how much of a difference there is. If your a big Dylan fan, I suggest the Cutting Edge from the Bootleg Series. It covers the 3 electric albums with outtakes, rehearsals, etc. It's by far my favorite of the Bootleg series and that's not even my favorite Dylan period. Those songs went thru so many changes. It's hard to say if we got the best version of them on the albums.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's the one I had. Lost them all in a move. Now I'm curious to hear the regular stereo version that is out and see how much of a difference there is. If your a big Dylan fan, I suggest the Cutting Edge from the Bootleg Series. It covers the 3 electric albums with outtakes, rehearsals, etc. It's by far my favorite of the Bootleg series and that's not even my favorite Dylan period. Those songs went thru so many changes. It's hard to say if we got the best version of them on the albums.

Haven't heard of that series, is it an actual bootleg or just how they're marketing it? You're probably a bigger Dylan fan than I am, I'm a fan but probably more casual, even tho I have my own tour jacket with my name on it from the 78 tour from when I did some work for them....

 

[Trebdp83]

Definitely DSD layer. Looks like conversion is taking place automatically. I remember PCM being displayed on one of my older Denons when my Oppo was in play without having to manually convert it.

 

[ElBlanco]

Wanted to give an update on what I found. I ordered some more mofi and found Love and Theft which was the Columbia release from 2003. It is 5.1 SACD and it plays on my system in 5.1. I didn't make any changes to the settings, just put the disc in and played. Admittedly, it sounds a lot different and is taking some time getting used to. My favorite song on that album, Summer Days, has this loud piano coming thru that is either added to the 5.1 or is buried in the stereo mix. Does anyone have experience with the Pink Floyd Blu Rays that were released a few years ago, I think called Experience? I had the Dark Side 5.1 sacd released in the early 2000s and I loved it. I think they are rereleasing it but I also saw the box set on sale which is Blu Ray audio. If anyone has experience with both, which do you prefer? Now that I know my system is playing 5.1 sacd, I'm not sure which route to go down.