RXV2700 Issues?

[JWhite]

Ok I am not sure if there is something wrong or not. I only had the fronts and the sub connected (played music and everything has been great), today I just connected my surround rears, tried the auto setup with the mic. When it was done it reported error W1: Out of Phase - which means that a speaker polarity is wrong. I checked the wiring results and the Front Left is Rev and Surround Right is Rev (everything else is fine, before I connected the rears, both fronts reported normal, nothing reversed). I double checked the wiring and all is good, sound did come out when it was optimizing. So I put a movie in that had THX optimizer on it, ran through it and when it selected Front Left, bot the front and the rear produced sound, this continued for all speakers in the test, execpt the sub made no sound. What should I have the audio set to...7 Ch stereo or something else. I put it on 2 Ch Stereo and played some music and everything was great. What could be wrong?

 

[Adam]

Just some thoughts/questions:

1. What audio setting did you have the Yamaha set to when you ran the THX optimizer? Your statement that, "when it selected Front Left, bot the front and the rear produced sound" makes me think that something is off. Are you saying that sound would play from both the front and rear left speakers when the optimizer was set to Front Left?

2. If your sub is powered and is set to automatically turn on when sent a signal, it might not have turned on in time for you to hear the test tone.

 

[JWhite]

I believe it was on 7 Ch Stereo. The Sub was on (not Auto)...so what should I set the amp to? Also any idea why it would show a front and a rear surround as reversed polarity?. I used Monster speaker cable, there is no + or - symbol on the wire so I went by the writing, I connected the wire with the writing to -, on the speaker and the amp...

 

[Adam]

JW,

I believe that you will want to set the Yammy to "Dolby Digital" or just set it to automatically detect.

Also, how your DVD player is connected and set-up will come into play:
1. If you have it connected to the Yammy with a digital connection (optical or coax), you'll want to make sure that the DVD player is set up to output "bitstream" and not "PCM". The PCM setting will output 2-channel stereo.
2. If you have it connected using 5.1 or 7.1 analog cables, then you might need to select that input on the Yammy. I'm not that familiar with the 2700, but I can look it up in the owner's manual if that's how you have it set up.

Adam

 

[Adam]

Also any idea why it would show a front and a rear surround as reversed polarity?. I used Monster speaker cable, there is no + or - symbol on the wire so I went by the writing, I connected the wire with the writing to -, on the speaker and the amp...

I don't have any ideas about why it would show reversed polarity if you hooked it all up correctly. I have Monster speaker cable, too, and I did exactly the same thing as you - followed the writing. I'd say just make sure that you did connect to the + and - connectors as intended. Most receivers and speakers use the same color coding, but you might want to check the actual + and - symbols on the connectors just to make sure (if you didn't already).

 

[JWhite]

Hey Adam,

Thanks again for the response. I went and bought some new cables (digital audio, optical, HDMI, etc...basically the works). I did only have it connected with an audio cable (left and right, my DVD player also has a Sub out, would that make a difference, I have no idea where I would even plug that into , in the back of the amp). As far as the reverse polarity with the speakers, I do find it strange, they are connected correctly, and with the rear surrounds connected, i now have a front that is reverse polarity, if I remove them, the front is no longer reversed? I did hear sound coming from all speakers though during the auto setup. Maybe something is wrong with the amp...I may have to call Yamaha. If anyone has any ideas for me to try, I would really appreciate it.

 

[Adam]

I did only have it connected with an audio cable (left and right, my DVD player also has a Sub out, would that make a difference, I have no idea where I would even plug that into , in the back of the amp).

Ah, that connection in combination with the 7 Ch stereo setting likely explains what you experienced when you were using the THX optimizer. The "Sub out" on the DVD might explain why you weren't hearing anything from the sub, too. If the DVD player was set up to do it's own bass management, then it might not have been outputting low frequencies out of the left/right audio jacks. The digital connection should help clear all of this up.

As far as the reverse polarity with the speakers, I do find it strange, they are connected correctly, and with the rear surrounds connected, i now have a front that is reverse polarity, if I remove them, the front is no longer reversed? I did hear sound coming from all speakers though during the auto setup. Maybe something is wrong with the amp...I may have to call Yamaha. If anyone has any ideas for me to try, I would really appreciate it.

I looked this up in the owner's manual. It does state that a "W1: Out of Phase" warning message may appear after auto setup "depending on the speakers even when the speakers are connected correctly." So, it's entirely possible that everything is setup fine but that the system just can't quite nail it down for you automatically.

If you would, let us know how it all sounds once you get your new cables set up. Thanks!

 

[Doug917]

I used to get that error all the time with the 2500 due to having bipolar speakers for the suround/suround back speakers.

 

[Hi Ho]

It is very common for the auto setup systems to "think" that speakers are out of phase. If you are certain that the wiring is correct, don't worry about it.

I did only have it connected with an audio cable (left and right, my DVD player also has a Sub out, would that make a difference, I have no idea where I would even plug that into , in the back of the amp).

You do NOT need to connect anything to the sub output on the DVD player. You will want your DVD player connected digitally using the optical cable you just purchased.

The next thing you need to do is press the "Sur. Decode" button on the Yamaha remote. This will tell the reciever to automatically select the best mode for the signal it's getting. Do NOT use 7 channel stereo! If you're going to use that mode then you might as well have an old 1970's reciever with quad speakers plugged into the speaker A/B jacks. It's the same thing. Surround sound does not meant that all sounds come out of all speakers all the time. Nearly all of the dialog will come from the center speaker. Music and sound effects will come from the front mains and surrounds.

 

[JWhite]

Thanks everyone for the input. Ok the new cables worked like a charm, some what, at least sound is coming out of the proper speaker. I reset everything on the amp (factory presets) and ran through the setup again, still the same thing, the right rear surround is showing as Rev in the Wiring menu. I took the speaker off the wall and reversed the banana connectors and ran the setup again, this time no message?!! I checked the connection in the back of the amp and the cable with writing is in Negative but is connected to the positive terminal on the back of the speaker. What gives?! Both setups still produce sound so what should I do? Oh another thing, I put in the movie LOTR and set the sound option to Dolby Digital EX and the receiver will not pick it up, is this due to no center speaker connected yet? (this is when I have the DVD player connected with Component and Optical) I also connected another DVD player (one from a Home theatre in a box) with HDMI and it would not auto select the Sur. Decoder, I could set it to whatever, turn off the movie, turn it back on and it would stay to the setting I selected (i.e. Pro Logic 2)...is this something with HDMI? I really hope there is something that I am missing here and not the amp. Thanks again everyone

 

[MDS]

First you should ensure that the polarity is correct - positive to positive and negative to negative - and then ignore the setup warning.

The other issues sound like setup issues. When using the optical audio connection, make sure that the dvd player is set to output bitstream and not PCM. You must also assign the optical input to the DVD selector so the receiver knows where to look for the sound and set the input to Auto so it will automatically choose the right decoder.

There are probably a few options for Dolby Digital EX. Many receivers have options that allow you to choose between Auto (use DD-EX only if the EX Flag is detected on the disc), Always use DD-EX (regardless of the format on the disc), and Never use DD-EX. It doesn't matter if you don't actually have the rear speaker connected but you have to at least lie to the receiver and tell it that one is connected; you can't use a 6.1 decoder if the receiver thinks there are only 5.1 speakers connected.

 

[Hi Ho]

There is nothing wrong with the amp. As MDS said, switch the wires on the rear speakers back and ignore the warning. The auto setup system is not the end all truth! Dipole speakers and room acoustics can trick the system into thinking that speakers are out of phase when in fact they are not. By switching the wires you made the surrounds out of phase and that is not what you want to do.

 

[JWhite]

I will reverse the connection and set it back to the original. Does anyone know if it makes a difference that the monster speaker cable I have does not list the polarity on the jacket? I went by the writing = '-'. So in order for Dolby EX, you need to have 6.1? well I do not have the center connected and I do not have a rear channel either, how would I fool the receiver in thinking I have one (I will have the center connected today after work)?

 

[Adam]

Does anyone know if it makes a difference that the monster speaker cable I have does not list the polarity on the jacket?

Outside of being inconvenient, it doesn't matter. As long you keep it straight (which you have by assigning the strands with writing on the sheath to "-"), you'll be fine. Some cables use writing, some use a colored line on one of the sides, and some use ridges on the sheath.

 

[MDS]

So in order for Dolby EX, you need to have 6.1? well I do not have the center connected and I do not have a rear channel either, how would I fool the receiver in thinking I have one (I will have the center connected today after work)?

In the speaker setup menu you just select Yes or On (whatever terminology the receiver uses) for those speakers.

I gather that you only have two speakers at the moment? If so that is why the auto select for surround modes doesn't work. You can't use a surround mode that creates N channels when you have fewer than N speakers.

 

[JWhite]

In the speaker setup menu you just select Yes or On (whatever terminology the receiver uses) for those speakers.

I gather that you only have two speakers at the moment? If so that is why the auto select for surround modes doesn't work. You can't use a surround mode that creates N channels when you have fewer than N speakers.

Acutally I have the fronts, sub and the rear surrounds...I am not sure if the 2700 has that ability, I think it auto-detects if there is a speaker, but if I do not have a 6.1 system, I could theoretically lie to the receiver thinking it did, in order to use the Dolby Digital EX decoders?

 

[MDS]

Acutally I have the fronts, sub and the rear surrounds...I am not sure if the 2700 has that ability, I think it auto-detects if there is a speaker, but if I do not have a 6.1 system, I could theoretically lie to the receiver thinking it did, in order to use the Dolby Digital EX decoders?

The auto-setup routine will detect speakers but that doesn't mean you can't go into the setup menu and change things yourself. If turn on the surround back speaker then the DD-EX decoder will be available but of course it won't do much good as the receiver will just send the surround back to a non-existent speaker. You can do it to check if DD-EX flagged discs are properly recognized.

 

[JWhite]

The auto-setup routine will detect speakers but that doesn't mean you can't go into the setup menu and change things yourself. If turn on the surround back speaker then the DD-EX decoder will be available but of course it won't do much good as the receiver will just send the surround back to a non-existent speaker. You can do it to check if DD-EX flagged discs are properly recognized.

That was the problem, it would not switch to Dolby Digital EX even though I selected that in the menu of the DVD...it would only go to Dolby Pro Logic...

 

[AVRat]

Your receiver should use DPL II processing for your 5.1 setup. Trying to manipulate it to produce an EX signal for your 5.1 setup is useless. Most people find the auto-set up feature aggravating and end up doing it manually. If you decide to go the manual route, it would be wise to pick up a Radio Shack SPL meter to aid with channel level adjustments.

 

[JWhite]

Your receiver should use DPL II processing for your 5.1 setup. Trying to manipulate it to produce an EX signal for your 5.1 setup is useless. Most people find the auto-set up feature aggravating and end up doing it manually. If you decide to go the manual route, it would be wise to pick up a Radio Shack SPL meter to aid with channel level adjustments.

So in order for DD-EX to function, there must be 2 front, 1 center, 2 rear surround, 1 rear center, and a sub, is this what DD-EX is...6.1? So if I only have a 5.1 system the amp should detect this?
I cannot manually set the amp to use the decoder for DD-EX...it is not an option in the setup for it.
So if I am watching a movie and I select the option for DD-EX (in the sound setup of the DVD), is it outputting that to the receiver but the receiver knows that configuration does not exist so it is smart enough to use DPL II in place?