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C

cyberbri

Banned
craigsub said:
Cyberbri ... The man became addicted to pain killers after a very serious back surgery. I listened to the show when he announced this. To paint this as calling the man a drug addict is beneath contempt. The way some people act, one would think Limbaugh was smoking crack.

If this was a liberal politician, he would have been lauded for his courage.

Instead, small minded, bitter individuals are pounding on the man.

As for the "illegal Viagara" ... whatever happened to something being a man's personal life ? Yep, when it is a conservative, let's crucify him.

It is also darkly amusing ... a left winger like yourself labeling someone a criminal because he was arrested. Criminal means one was convicted of a crime.

It's the fact that the people with money, and hence good lawyers, get to go to rehab when they get caught, and the people without money go to jail. It's no different than getting addicted to morphine or any other drug. Call a spade a spade, especially when that spade makes a living out of calling spades.

The "illegal viagara" goes against his probation (if you're on probation, are you not a criminal?), making it criminal. I guess criminals are only criminals when they're not rich right-wing talk-show hosts (or people with enough money for top lawyers).
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
rjbudz said:
Yep, and he has his perfectly logical reasons for his comments, too. It's funny how (I'll say again) you both sound alike. (Actually Craig234 sounds more like the left-handed version of Rush.) Yin and yang. Two sides of the same old coin. Polarizing America by lobbing insults across the political aisle must be a lot of fun. So many are doing it.

Too bad facts get lost in the rush (pardon ;) ) to judgement by both sides.
There's a difference between making jokes about a hypocrite, and making a living off of bashing people and distorting the facts and preaching hate and polarizing the nation.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Yes, the illegal Viagra ought to be a violation of his probation. In which case the DA ought to rescind the deal, making Limbaugh a convict. We'll see.
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
It's the fact that the people with money, and hence good lawyers, get to go to rehab when they get caught, and the people without money go to jail. It's no different than getting addicted to morphine or any other drug. Call a spade a spade, especially when that spade makes a living out of calling spades.

The "illegal viagara" goes against his probation (if you're on probation, are you not a criminal?), making it criminal. I guess criminals are only criminals when they're not rich right-wing talk-show hosts (or people with enough money for top lawyers).
Once again, facts are not your friend. NewsWeek, hardly a friend of Limbaugh's, researched this whole event. Here is what they found:

Newsweek said:
Limbaugh was ostensibly thanking his listeners for helping surpass the $15 million mark on the talk-show host's annual fund-raising campaign for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. But he may have been sending a more personal message as well. Soon after he stepped away from the mike last Friday after his usual noon to 3 p.m. broadcast, the radio icon climbed into a black Cadillac Escalade with his lawyer, Roy Black, and drove over to the Palm Beach County jail. There he surrendered to authorities on a charge that he had fraudulently obtained prescription drugs. He was fingerprinted and released an hour later on $3,000 bail. LIMBAUGH ARRESTED was the immediate headline on the wires and on TV, but the word "arrest" was misleading. In fact, Limbaugh had pleaded not guilty, and his lawyer had worked out a deal that would cause the single charge to be dropped after 18 months as long as Limbaugh stayed out of trouble and continued to see a doctor who has helped him with an addiction to painkillers.
Note ... no probation. The single charge was dropped.

How did Limbaugh handle himself during all this ? More from Newsweek, after Limbaugh acknowledged his addiction on his program in 2003 ..

Newsweek said:
Limbaugh confessed at the time that he was hooked on painkillers and went into rehab for five weeks. He turned his show over to fill-ins (including Tony Snow, the former Fox News commentator who last week became President George W. Bush's spokesman) and began the arduous process of weaning himself from drugs like OxyContin, an extremely addictive narcotic. When he returned to the airwaves in mid-November 2003, he was contrite and seemed to be struggling not to play the victim or the hero. "I'm not a role model," he said. "What I did, I did knowingly. What I did, I did because I wanted to do it, but I knew it was wrong the whole time. It's a powerful addiction this stuff has."
And ... how did he become addicted ? Again, from NewsWeek ...

Newsweek said:
Limbaugh's drug problems began after he made a medical choice to try to preserve his radio voice. According to the close friend (whose account was confirmed by Limbaugh's lawyer), several years ago the radio host was suffering from spinal problems and was faced with a choice of surgery. The doctors wanted to go in through the back of his mouth, but Limbaugh was worried about his vocal cords. A different procedure was performed, and Limbaugh's suffering did not go away. He began to take pain pills in ever-larger numbers.
The man had a severe medical problem, and became addicted to prescription drugs. I had a best friend who was addicted to morphine after a serious skiing accident in 1981. I sat with Paul (my friend) for several days during his ordeal.

To place people like this into the title "drug addict" is just plain mean spirited.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
D

df4801

Banned
Rush actually did NOTHING illegal with the viagra.
It is not a crime in Florida to have a Rx issued to you thru another name in order to protect your identity.
No charges have or will be filed because no law was broken.

I think those who hate him are a little jealous that he is the single most listened to and successful radio name EVER in the business.

And for those of you that think he is nuts, way off base, etc,... You may want to start asking yourself....
With the millions and millions of Americans who listen and agree with a lot of what he says... Is it maybe you thats out of touch?
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
cyberbri said:
There's a difference between making jokes about a hypocrite, and making a living off of bashing people and distorting the facts and preaching hate and polarizing the nation.
Of course he makes a living off it. The difference is he's a pro and you're just an amateur. Look in the mirror, bri. Have you ever considered that you would be better served offering pity and attempting to understand and learn something about people? But you're in the same circus...as I said, but not so much as Craig234. Mr.234 has single-handedly insulted more people on this forum than all the rest of the insulting posts combined that I've seen on this forum in the long time I've been here. What irritates me is that not one of you from his political point of view found it necessary to comment on the ridicule he heaped on people here. It appears he can call people cows and children and ignorant and all the rest, and you'll accept it, or worse, laud it, so long as he's attacking conservatives. He was attacking not only their ideas, mind you, but them. A couple even praised him for it. That is immature and unacceptable behavior, and I find myself taking up defense against his unwarranted attacks on others. And surprise.... I'm not even a 'conservative'. So for a different reason, I'll echo craigsub's words. You should be ashamed.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
This has nothing to do with Cragi234 or anyone else. :confused:

Mean-spirited? I should be ashamed?

If he wasn't rich and couldn't afford good lawyers he'd be in jail like a normal person. He could have got help for his addiction, and instead used his maid to score drugs, and doctor-shopped to get more and more drugs to feed his addiction.

But in this country, drug addicts with money get deals and rehab, while those without money are criminalized and sent to jail and ridiculed by people like Rush.

I guess none of you defending him have ever actually listened to his show... :confused:
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
This has nothing to do with Cragi234 or anyone else. :confused:

Mean-spirited? I should be ashamed?

If he wasn't rich and couldn't afford good lawyers he'd be in jail like a normal person. He could have got help for his addiction, and instead used his maid to score drugs, and doctor-shopped to get more and more drugs to feed his addiction.

But in this country, drug addicts with money get deals and rehab, while those without money are criminalized and sent to jail and ridiculed by people like Rush.

I guess none of you defending him have ever actually listened to his show... :confused:
Yes, I have listened to his show. The guy is hilarious. Of course, if you spend your life looking at kook conspiracy theory websites, his humor is probably not for you.

Now, Cyber guy ... TRY to follow this ... Limbaugh did not doctor shop. It was ALLEGED that he doctor shopped. We live in a country in which one is innocent until proven guilty. While that may not appeal to you, it is our justice system.

The facts are yes, he was addicted to prescription drugs.

There is a BIG difference between someone starting with illegal drugs, and becoming a crack addict and someone who is using legal prescription drugs and becomes addicted. You don't wish to see the difference because you hate the man involved.

That is YOUR problem. Perhaps if you could get some counseling, it would help you get past this hatred.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
craigsub said:
Yes, I have listened to his show. The guy is hilarious. Of course, if you spend your life looking at kook conspiracy theory websites, his humor is probably not for you.

Now, Cyber guy ... TRY to follow this ... Limbaugh did not doctor shop. It was ALLEGED that he doctor shopped. We live in a country in which one is innocent until proven guilty. While that may not appeal to you, it is our justice system.

The facts are yes, he was addicted to prescription drugs.

There is a BIG difference between someone starting with illegal drugs, and becoming a crack addict and someone who is using legal prescription drugs and becomes addicted. You don't wish to see the difference because you hate the man involved.

That is YOUR problem. Perhaps if you could get some counseling, it would help you get past this hatred.

And you and others were mad at me for personal insults (against a radio talk show host)? I said some jokes about the guy, but I haven't insulted anyone on this board personally. And now I am being fully attacked by you, all for making a few jokes about Rush, someone who has gotten rich off of attacking others.

The only reason he was able to get out of going to jail was because he is rich and can afford good lawyers. Yes, that is our justice system for you - those with money can get away with much more than people without money.
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
And you and others were mad at me for personal insults (against a radio talk show host)? I said some jokes about the guy, but I haven't insulted anyone on this board personally. And now I am being fully attacked by you, all for making a few jokes about Rush, someone who has gotten rich off of attacking others.

The only reason he was able to get out of going to jail was because he is rich and can afford good lawyers. Yes, that is our justice system for you - those with money can get away with much more than people without money.
No, Cyber .. You attacked the man and placed guilt on him. You did so after the one charge pending against him was dropped.

You called him a criminal. That is hatred, Cyber, to call a person a criminal when that person has had charges dropped.

An allegation against someone which is later dropped does not make that person a criminal.

This means YOU are the person doing the attacking.

It is your OPINION that he "got away with this because he is rich". You have no proof of this, and are merely making it up.
 
C

Craig234

Audioholic
Rush who?

I'm not interested in Rush.

A few here like to drag down the debate to personal attacks, well ok, mostly two people, most of all rjbudz and secondarily craigsub.

Craigsub, at least, posts a mix of argument and insults, though he runs screaming like a young girl from the facts he doesn't like, unfortunately.

(See post 51 in the economics thread and his explicit refusal to discuss the facts).

In this thread, while Craigsub is pretty ironic to say to anyone that they're misusing facts when he's the worst offender I see of this, his points are not too far off-target; Rush is a victim in large part, and I do have sympathy for him on his problems. However, he's also accountable for his utterly hateful, foolish, demagoguic rants against all drug abusers in the past. There's some poetic justice in his looking foolish now.

I happen to have sympathy for all kinds of drug abusers, in fact. I'm lucky enough never to have used illegal drugs (beyond some drinking before I was 21, which was damned foolish). However, I feel great sympathy for those who are in bad situations who choose to relieve the suffering through drugs and make it far worse. I'd like to see far greater education for everyone to choose not to start on drugs, and free treatment for everyone to end addiction.

Of course, liberals like to look at the big picture, and with drugs it includes the connections to street gangs getting funding from the drug trade, drug warlords in Mexico and other countries to the south commiting terrible crimes with the funding of illegal drugs, the misery in Afghanistan is increased not only by it being the country's #1 product now - they're the world's largest supplier again after a drop in one of the few good effects of the Taliban - but there are all kinds of peripheral side effects from a new addiction problem among homeless youth in neighboring countries (I saw a devastating photo spread on this in National Georgraphic) to the harm to the legal crops of farmers damaged by anti-opium measures to the pressures on farmers to grop opium and risk prison.

Basically zero of this matters much to the right, outside of the political use of saying they're against drugs while doing little that's effective, but rather simply upping the sentences, always, on the heaviest minority-used drugs (there is no excuse for the sentencing gaps between powder and crack cocaine, as even right-wing officials admit), which happens to also have the benefit of taking massive numbers of minority voters off the voting lists.

Many on the left are too quick to indulge in schadenfreude and exaggerate the wrong of Rush in all this. That's unfortunate.

But look at the right-wingers, with as usual zero ability to post anything two-sided, instead with nothing but defense of Rush.

You don't see a word about his 'personal responsibility' to have dealt with the issue to avoid addiction.

You see the usual deceipt in implying he's not guilty of a crime, that he came clean to his listeners on his own rather than when he was exposed.

I've long said the current right wing has many 'cult' members, who simply side with their 'side', unaware even themselves of the extent of their bias.

Finally, let's debunk one last right-wing talking point. Jealousy has nothing to do with the attacks on Rush. It's like saying the US went to war with Hitler because they were jealous of his successes in gaining power and growing his economy. It's nothing but an attack on the critic. There is opposition to Ruch because he's a spokesman for evil, a sellout for the corrupt, the Tariq Aziz of the right wing. Alleging jealousy is simply a slanderous deceipt.

I wish Rush well in his recovery and encourage people to show restraint in the attacks on him related to it, while recognizing that some pointing out of his hypocrisy is appropriate.
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
Craig234 said:
I'm not interested in Rush.

A few here like to drag down the debate to personal attacks, well ok, mostly two people, most of all rjbudz and secondarily craigsub.

Craigsub, at least, posts a mix of argument and insults, though he runs screaming like a young girl from the facts he doesn't like, unfortunately.

(See post 51 in the economics thread and his explicit refusal to discuss the facts).

In this thread, while Craigsub is pretty ironic to say to anyone that they're misusing facts when he's the worst offender I see of this, his points are not too far off-target; Rush is a victim in large part, and I do have sympathy for him on his problems. However, he's also accountable for his utterly hateful, foolish, demagoguic rants against all drug abusers in the past. There's some poetic justice in his looking foolish now.

I happen to have sympathy for all kinds of drug abusers, in fact. I'm lucky enough never to have used illegal drugs (beyond some drinking before I was 21, which was damned foolish). However, I feel great sympathy for those who are in bad situations who choose to relieve the suffering through drugs and make it far worse. I'd like to see far greater education for everyone to choose not to start on drugs, and free treatment for everyone to end addiction.

Of course, liberals like to look at the big picture, and with drugs it includes the connections to street gangs getting funding from the drug trade, drug warlords in Mexico and other countries to the south commiting terrible crimes with the funding of illegal drugs, the misery in Afghanistan is increased not only by it being the country's #1 product now - they're the world's largest supplier again after a drop in one of the few good effects of the Taliban - but there are all kinds of peripheral side effects from a new addiction problem among homeless youth in neighboring countries (I saw a devastating photo spread on this in National Georgraphic) to the harm to the legal crops of farmers damaged by anti-opium measures to the pressures on farmers to grop opium and risk prison.

Basically zero of this matters much to the right, outside of the political use of saying they're against drugs while doing little that's effective, but rather simply upping the sentences, always, on the heaviest minority-used drugs (there is no excuse for the sentencing gaps between powder and crack cocaine, as even right-wing officials admit), which happens to also have the benefit of taking massive numbers of minority voters off the voting lists.

Many on the left are too quick to indulge in schadenfreude and exaggerate the wrong of Rush in all this. That's unfortunate.

But look at the right-wingers, with as usual zero ability to post anything two-sided, instead with nothing but defense of Rush.

You don't see a word about his 'personal responsibility' to have dealt with the issue to avoid addiction.

You see the usual deceipt in implying he's not guilty of a crime, that he came clean to his listeners on his own rather than when he was exposed.

I've long said the current right wing has many 'cult' members, who simply side with their 'side', unaware even themselves of the extent of their bias.

Finally, let's debunk one last right-wing talking point. Jealousy has nothing to do with the attacks on Rush. It's like saying the US went to war with Hitler because they were jealous of his successes in gaining power and growing his economy. It's nothing but an attack on the critic. There is opposition to Ruch because he's a spokesman for evil, a sellout for the corrupt, the Tariq Aziz of the right wing. Alleging jealousy is simply a slanderous deceipt.
You are kidding, right ? For YOU of all people to whine about personal attacks is just amazing. You have a few choice ones in this post alone. ;)

For the record, I did respond to your Area 51 post (how Ironic is THAT?) ... I looked at the fringe websites you were using, and gave it more response than it deserved. Post something from a real source, and we will discuss it.

And 234 ... When you said this "You don't see a word about his 'personal responsibility' to have dealt with the issue to avoid addiction."

You ignored this, which I posted earlier ...
Limbaugh said:
I'm not a role model," he said. "What I did, I did knowingly. What I did, I did because I wanted to do it, but I knew it was wrong the whole time. It's a powerful addiction this stuff has.
The man DID publically take personal responsibility.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Craig234 said:
A few here like to drag down the debate to personal attacks

Craigsub runs screaming like a young girl from the facts he doesn't like, unfortunately.
.
Oh, you are WAY too easy. :D
 
C

Craig234

Audioholic
Craigsub

For the record, I did respond to your Area 51 post (how Ironic is THAT?) ... I looked at the fringe websites you were using, and gave it more response than it deserved. Post something from a real source, and we will discuss it.
You did not respond. You ran away with the one-word 'response' that the web sites are 'fringe', without any response to the substance, or disproving them.

Not ironic at all, as it turns out. Considering your frequent habit of posting misleading or irrelevant facts, the irony you seek appears.

And 234 ... When you said this "You don't see a word about his 'personal responsibility' to have dealt with the issue to avoid addiction."

You ignored this, which I posted earlier ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limbaugh
I'm not a role model," he said. "What I did, I did knowingly. What I did, I did because I wanted to do it, but I knew it was wrong the whole time. It's a powerful addiction this stuff has.

The man DID publically take personal responsibility.
No - I gave him 'credit' for spinning as well as he could once he was exposed.

I asked where was his taking personal responsibility for dealing with the addiction issues earlier - in avoiding the addiction or treating it early.

Certainly, he had some role, some responsibility in the choices he made in how to deal with the fact that the pain meds were leading to addiction.

Did he enter rehab before things had gone on a very long time and he'd been caught commiting a crime? No, he did not. That's not 'personal responsibility'.

Again, I'm saying partial blame - I do understand that these things happen, and have sympathy for him as well.

And it's a lot more than he shows for others.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
craigsub said:
No, Cyber .. You attacked the man and placed guilt on him. You did so after the one charge pending against him was dropped.

You called him a criminal. That is hatred, Cyber, to call a person a criminal when that person has had charges dropped.

An allegation against someone which is later dropped does not make that person a criminal.

This means YOU are the person doing the attacking.

It is your OPINION that he "got away with this because he is rich". You have no proof of this, and are merely making it up.

You yourself posted this:
"and his lawyer had worked out a deal that would cause the single charge to be dropped after 18 months as long as Limbaugh stayed out of trouble and continued to see a doctor who has helped him with an addiction to painkillers"

So the charge still stands against him, with the contingency that he stays clean for 18 months.

What exactly am I making up? His lawyer got him a deal to get the charges dropped. If he was innocent, he could certainly fight the charges and clear his name.

And how exactly does Rush show this same compassion for "innocent until proven guilty"? With his Club Gitmo line of apparel exploiting so-called "enemy combatants" (hundreds of whom have been released as non-threats) who never get the due process they deserve? His whole career is based on attacking and slandering those he disagrees with (and ALL "libs/dems" not just the people in power), making up his own reality. If you see that as "humor," oh well... But please don't talk to me about "attacks" when his whole career is based on attacking others.

And how is "Perhaps if you could get some counseling, it would help you get past this hatred" not an insult/attack?

Actually, you don't have to respond at all. I can already imagine your response, so I'll save you the time.
 
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C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
You yourself posted this:
"and his lawyer had worked out a deal that would cause the single charge to be dropped after 18 months as long as Limbaugh stayed out of trouble and continued to see a doctor who has helped him with an addiction to painkillers"

So the charge still stands against him, with the contingency that he stays clean for 18 months.

What exactly am I making up? His lawyer got him a deal to get the charges dropped. If he was innocent, he could certainly fight the charges and clear his name.

And how exactly does Rush show this same compassion for "innocent until proven guilty"? With his Club Gitmo line of apparel exploiting so-called "enemy combatants" (hundreds of whom have been released as non-threats) who never get the due process they deserve? His whole career is based on attacking and slandering those he disagrees with (and ALL "libs/dems" not just the people in power), making up his own reality. If you see that as "humor," oh well...

And how is "Perhaps if you could get some counseling, it would help you get past this hatred" not an insult/attack?
The first 90% of your post is more ranting.

To answer the last line ... that was genuine concern. You need to lighten up. ;)
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
craigsub said:
The first 90% of your post is more ranting.

To answer the last line ... that was genuine concern. You need to lighten up. ;)

Nice rebuttal. :confused:
I edited my post while you were replying, but basically that's what I expected from you. :cool:
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
Nice rebuttal. :confused:
I edited my post while you were replying, but basically that's what I expected from you. :cool:
Yes, it combined compassion and humor. Some people can even recognize both. :cool:
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
craigsub said:
Yes, it combined compassion and humor. Some people can even recognize both. :cool:

I also expected the dodging and dismissing the discussion at hand with comments that try to be witty and veiled insults at the same time, and then shrug off those non-witty veiled insults with more non-witty veiled insults. :rolleyes:
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
I also expected the dodging and dismissing the discussion at hand with comments that try to be witty and veiled insults at the same time, and then shrug off those non-witty veiled insults with more non-witty veiled insults. :rolleyes:
There is no "dodging" ... but there is concern for you. If you don't see that, ok. That is your decision.
 
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