Room acoustics for open plan space

[planetshilp]

Hi All,

Seeking your advice / tips on improving room acoustics for my setup in an open plan space.

Current Setup
Paradigm 6000 monitor (L&R)
Paradigm centre 2000 C
Paradigm h65-A ceiling speakers
SVS - PB 1000 (Ported) - Sub
Sony STR-AN1000 receiver

Issue:
Since this is an open plan space with one side to kitchen and glass doors on the other - it is not an ideal place for HT - but don't have other options! Please see the attached photos of the set up. Looking to add acoustic panels but not sure if that would help and hence seeking advice - should I even go that route and where to place them. Apologies - as I am still in very early days of my learning curve in this space!

Thanks

 

[highfigh]

Hi All,

Seeking your advice / tips on improving room acoustics for my setup in an open plan space.

Current Setup
Paradigm 6000 monitor (L&R)
Paradigm centre 2000 C
Paradigm h65-A ceiling speakers
SVS - PB 1000 (Ported) - Sub
Sony STR-AN1000 receiver

Issue:
Since this is an open plan space with one side to kitchen and glass doors on the other - it is not an ideal place for HT - but don't have other options! Please see the attached photos of the set up. Looking to add acoustic panels but not sure if that would help and hence seeking advice - should I even go that route and where to place them. Apologies - as I am still in very early days of my learning curve in this space!

Thanks

Sound in large rooms and spaces is much more difficult to control, partly because nothing will be between the listeners & sound sources (speakers), walls in the larger sense, the ceiling and floor (unless carpet or large rugs will be there) and if a listener moves, whatever they did for some seating positions won't matter for others unless by coincidence and that's rare. This means that above a certain level, reflections will be easily heard. A few acoustical panels may help for some sound but overall, place your furnishings between the speakers and walls and make sure multiple paths for reflected sound don't exist. Don't look it as if the sound is a laser beam, either- the speaker dispersion will make a big difference in this.

Any past advanced science & math studies will help in this.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'd suggest improving it by doing a subwoofer crawl first and then consider to upgrade to better center speaker.

Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

Do the Subwoofer Crawl. It's the easiest way to find the proper placement location for your subwoofer to get the best performance and sound.

www.audioholics.com

 

[highfigh]

I'd suggest improving it by doing a subwoofer crawl first and then consider to upgrade to better center speaker.

Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

Do the Subwoofer Crawl. It's the easiest way to find the proper placement location for your subwoofer to get the best performance and sound.

www.audioholics.com

I would agree and the low end is important, but the mid-bass/mids/upper mids will be very annoying when the flutter and phantom sounds are audible. Besides, the low end should come last, after the rest of the spectrum has been addressed.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi All,

Seeking your advice / tips on improving room acoustics for my setup in an open plan space.

Current Setup
Paradigm 6000 monitor (L&R)
Paradigm centre 2000 C
Paradigm h65-A ceiling speakers
SVS - PB 1000 (Ported) - Sub
Sony STR-AN1000 receiver

Issue:
Since this is an open plan space with one side to kitchen and glass doors on the other - it is not an ideal place for HT - but don't have other options! Please see the attached photos of the set up. Looking to add acoustic panels but not sure if that would help and hence seeking advice - should I even go that route and where to place them. Apologies - as I am still in very early days of my learning curve in this space!

Thanks

I have not heard a lot of speakers but I have heard those. The 6000F speakers I did not like at all. The bass end was bloated in the 100 Hz range and a bit above. The midrange was recessed and the top end on the harsh side. In all honesty they were not speakers I could live with at all.

There are measurements on the 3000s and the speakers are similar with less bass drivers. So I expect your speaker choice is a factor here.

On axis.

Off axis response.

I suspect the bass of your speakers does not drop off as fast, but it might, as from my memory those speakers had the boom frequencies aplenty, but no deeper bass.

How people come to make a design like that, let alone market it is beyond me. Unfortunately this sort of thing happens far too often.

Those are NRC measurements and so can be trusted.

 

[ski2xblack]

Tough room and layout.

Without changing speakers, that room would be best in terms of acoustics if you would reorient/rotate the system one wall to the left, for a symmetric layout and orientation to corners and side walls with your mains. That obviously conflicts with the video part of the equation, though.

So back to how it's oriented in your photos...you could try and ameliorate the hard early reflections with treatments. The couch at the mlp being smack up against the back wall isn't ideal either.

Trying to fix a suboptimal room situation may be better achieved with a swap to different speakers that work for you rather than against you, as opposed to a bunch of room treatments. Speakers with narrower dispersion could be employed in such a way to sidestep the issues that arise from wide dispersion speakers in assymetric settings. Prolly help those seats on the couch under the window be more listenable vantage points too.

 

[TLS Guy]

Tough room and layout.

Without changing speakers, that room would be best in terms of acoustics if you would reorient/rotate the system one wall to the left, for a symmetric layout and orientation to corners and side walls with your mains. That obviously conflicts with the video part of the equation, though.

So back to how it's oriented in your photos...you could try and ameliorate the hard early reflections with treatments. The couch at the mlp being smack up against the back wall isn't ideal either.

Trying to fix a suboptimal room situation may be better achieved with a swap to different speakers that work for you rather than against you, rather than a bunch of room treatments. Speakers with narrower dispersion could be employed in such a way to sidestep the issues that arise from wide dispersion speakers in assymetric settings. Prolly help those seats on the couch under the window be more listenable vantage points too.

I would really advise a speaker change. I rarely react to speakers as badly as I do those. I could not listen to them long. I had to put them in the nasty category. Their measured FR is not encouraging, but somehow they seem worse than that. I suspect it is that bass peak and then rapid fall away. Very nasty indeed. Mucking about with the room will not help that.

 

[planetshilp]

Thanks all for your valuable input. At this stage, changing orientation or upgrading speakers is (sadly) not an option! So far, the viable options are:

1. Experiment with sub crawl.
2. Move the MLP (brown couch) a bit further.

Would you guys recommend addition of some form of acoustic panels to the room, if yes, what would the preferred locations be (which do not interfere with the aesthetics of the room – and keeps her happy!!). Also, I know it’s a bit of rabbit hole, what would your recommendations be in terms of front L&R and centre speakers (Under 5K AUD). Also, I forgot to mention the ceiling has surround + atmos speakers (please see my dilemma for getting these in the following post https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/rear-speakers-open-plan-living.128038/)

Thanks All.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks all for your valuable input. At this stage, changing orientation or upgrading speakers is (sadly) not an option! So far, the viable options are:

1. Experiment with sub crawl.
2. Move the MLP (brown couch) a bit further.

Would you guys recommend addition of some form of acoustic panels to the room, if yes, what would the preferred locations be (which do not interfere with the aesthetics of the room – and keeps her happy!!). Also, I know it’s a bit of rabbit hole, what would your recommendations be in terms of front L&R and centre speakers (Under 5K AUD). Also, I forgot to mention the ceiling has surround + atmos speakers (please see my dilemma for getting these in the following post https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/rear-speakers-open-plan-living.128038/)

Thanks All.

You can't put surround and Atmos speakers in the ceiling, just Atmos. A big part of your problem which is common, is trying to do multichannel audio in an open space like that. It is impossible. A space like that can ONLY have left right and center speakers. Add more and you have a mess. I don't think wall treatments will help you. You have a situation where less is more. I was watching some acoustic experts talking about this very issue. If you are going Atmos it takes a designed and dedicated custom space. I agree entirely.

 

[DigitalDawn]

As mentioned above, your room may not be a good candidate for Atmos. You can put rear surround speakers in the ceiling, and I would recommend Bipole Surrounds for this purpose. They work very well, diffuse enough for close rear-wall placement issues, and they still have good localization.

See Triad Bipole models below - they will also paint the speakers and/or grills to match your ceiling.

https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/6580194dfc1deea0c0f8ceab/6580efa96f88091c205d1df5_triad-bronze-surrounds-triad-data-sheet-rev-a.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-14,799

 

[TLS Guy]

As mentioned above, your room may not be a good candidate for Atmos. You can put rear surround speakers in the ceiling, and I would recommend Bipole Surrounds for this purpose. They work very well, diffuse enough for close rear-wall placement issues, and they still have good localization.

See Triad Bipole models below - they will also paint the speakers and/or grills to match your ceiling.

https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/6580194dfc1deea0c0f8ceab/6580efa96f88091c205d1df5_triad-bronze-surrounds-triad-data-sheet-rev-a.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-14,799

You have some products for those rooms

Those large open space multi-purpose great rooms, have become the norm in recent years. They are, I think are actually the biggest reason for the decline in good home audio and AV.

Those spaces are used for entertaining. We had 35 on Sunday for our daughters 25th wedding anniversary celebrations. Speaker systems are a nuisance in those spaces. My wife was right and usually is. I was against AV in that space, but my wife insisted on a good system. After being with me for nearly sixty years now, she easily can tell good from bad sound. However she insisted that the system take zero floor space. That got me out of my comfort zone. However I did it and designed a really good 3.1 in wall system. She loves it, and so do visitors who I think would pay cash for similar. However delivering really good audio and a true sub is a tall order. The system below delivers deep bass with authority. It is a potent 1000 watt system and has no problem filling that space. It does it at high spl. with power to spare.

I was watching a good video with a couple of engineers including one who masters Atmos productions. There view was that few rooms can benefit from multichannel audio, and that Atmos in particular requires a custom purpose designed space, or it is a waste of time. That is the conclusion I have come to for some time. They were of the view that would be a severe limitation to the installation and survival of home immersive audio. That is increasingly my view. I would not dream of going above 3.1 in a space like that. However that is what the many attempt, with severe disappointment and getting very poor value for money.