Rockets versus B&W's

[Pete Dzwonkas]

Anybody own the Onix Rocket loudspeakers? The 750 looks good and a new 850 is coming out. Read a review where they outdid price-comparable Paradigms side-by-side, especially the tweeters. Was considering the B&W 703's and an HTM7 or even the HTM1 ($2k) with already owned DS6's. But for way less dough, the 850's and their center run $2600 total and the 2 pair of surrounds are only $600 each (to do 7.1 want 2 pair). I could save $1000 by getting 7 speakers from them versus 3 speakers from B&W. Don't want to be dissapointed though, so looking for any experience here.

http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=3

 

[furrycute]

I heard those Rockets side by side with Paradigms. No comparison, I preferred the Paradigms hands down. The Rockets have a narrow soundstage, way too much bass boom, not so great imaging.

 

[Nomo]

I have yet to hear the Rockets, but I have heard both Paradigm and B&W.
Keeping the cost out of it, to me, the B&Ws win hands down.
Throwing in the cost factor makes it a tough choice.
Can you listen to both side by side?

 

[Lagger]

I heard those Rockets side by side with Paradigms. No comparison, I preferred the Paradigms hands down. The Rockets have a narrow soundstage, way too much bass boom, not so great imaging.

Thats too bad, cause the Rockets look nice By comparison, what speakers do you own/run, and have you heard similiar priced Axioms perhaps?

What else competes in the $1,000 range for similiar floorstanding speakers? Thanks

 

[zumbo]

This is what I use: MB Quart

I would choose them over Paradigm for sure. B&W 703's would be a tough choice. But when you figure in the cost, the Quarts win hands down. Now, B&W 803's are another story. They are my favorite. But, for the money, I chose the MB Quart 830's.
Don't get me wrong, Paradigm would be the speakers of choice after the others.

They are 4 ohm.

 

[Lagger]

Zumbo,

What do those run $$$ wise? Yawa's page is down. Thanks.

This is what I use: MB Quart

I would choose them over Paradigm for sure. B&W 703's would be a tough choice. But when you figure in the cost, the Quarts win hands down. Now, B&W 803's are another story. They are my favorite. But, for the money, I chose the MB Quart 830's.
Don't get me wrong, Paradigm would be the speakers of choice after the others.

They are 4 ohm.

 

[zumbo]

They go on & off sale like a relationship in a soap opera. I paid $999.00 a pair for mine. During Thanksgiving, they had them for $699.00 a pair. They have a 30 day "no questions asked" return policy on Quarts only. You will love them!

 

[furrycute]

Thats too bad, cause the Rockets look nice By comparison, what speakers do you own/run, and have you heard similiar priced Axioms perhaps?

What else competes in the $1,000 range for similiar floorstanding speakers? Thanks

Looks can often be deceiving. You cannot judge a book by its cover. You have to actually hear those speakers side by side with other speakers. The Rockets do have beautiful cabinets, no doubt about it. But soundwise, they leave A LOT to be desired.

Under 1 grand, there are a lot of commercially available options, offering superior sound compared to the Rockets. Aside from the Paradigms, I have heard the Infinities, Monitor audio, Energy, and even Boston Acoustics makes some really nice floorstanders under 1 grand that sound much better than the Rockets.

I heard the Rockets towers and the Paradigm towers side by side at a local audiophile meeting. The owner of those Rockets wanted to get rid of them after the meet. Last I heard, unfortunately he couldn't find any buyer for them, even at significant losses.

 

[VS540]

Looks can often be deceiving. You cannot judge a book by its cover. You have to actually hear those speakers side by side with other speakers. The Rockets do have beautiful cabinets, no doubt about it. But soundwise, they leave A LOT to be desired.

Under 1 grand, there are a lot of commercially available options, offering superior sound compared to the Rockets. Aside from the Paradigms, I have heard the Infinities, Monitor audio, Energy, and even Boston Acoustics makes some really nice floorstanders under 1 grand that sound much better than the Rockets.

I heard the Rockets towers and the Paradigm towers side by side at a local audiophile meeting. The owner of those Rockets wanted to get rid of them after the meet. Last I heard, unfortunately he couldn't find any buyer for them, even at significant losses.

That's pretty unusual considering most side by side or blind A/B testing has the Rockets coming out on top.

I listened to B&W, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Boston, Atlantic and some others and the Rockets to me bested all them. Paradigm Studio's were very bright and thin and boomy. B&W 600 series and CM series were also bright and lacked bass. Boston and Atlantic couldn't even compare to the B&W and Para which I didn't like. Monitor Audio was the best B&M speaker I heard in my price range, very smooth, open soundstage, and dynamic. I then tried the Rocket 750 Sigs, RSC200 and RSS300's and thought those were even better than the Monitor Audio's. I will soon be getting the 850's as well.

I know there have been several threads on the AV123 forum where people prefered 750's over Paradigm Studio 100's v.3 in side by side and also many B&W speakers.

If I were you try to audition some 1st before buying anything. You can go to http://www.audioenvy.com/ and look or go to the av123 forum and ask for some help.

 

[zumbo]

That's pretty unusual considering most side by side or blind A/B testing has the Rockets coming out on top.

I listened to B&W, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Boston, Atlantic and some others and the Rockets to me bested all them. Paradigm Studio's were very bright and thin and boomy. B&W 600 series and CM series were also bright and lacked bass. Boston and Atlantic couldn't even compare to the B&W and Para which I didn't like. Monitor Audio was the best B&M speaker I heard in my price range, very smooth, open soundstage, and dynamic. I then tried the Rocket 750 Sigs, RSC200 and RSS300's and thought those were even better than the Monitor Audio's. I will soon be getting the 850's as well.

I know there have been several threads on the AV123 forum where people prefered 750's over Paradigm Studio 100's v.3 in side by side and also many B&W speakers.

If I were you try to audition some 1st before buying anything. You can go to http://www.audioenvy.com/ and look or go to the av123 forum and ask for some help.

Will you list your audio equipment used in which your opinion is based? I find it hard to believe. Also, 600 & CM series are not mentioned here. Also, which model Monitor Audio's did you audition? I did a side-by-side test with the GR 20 vs. B&W 703's & 803's. While Monitor Audio had more low end, the detail & purity of the vocals, strings, drums, & so on could not even come close to B&W. There were six audiophiles in the room, and five picked the B&W 703"s & 803's first. The sixth person was a M/A rep. Go figure.

 

[Pete Dzwonkas]

Thanks for the replies guys. I don't want to turn this into a $1000 speaker search. I'm planning on spending considerably more and it appeared that the driver quantities and overall sizes compared to the B&W 703's and I thought, what the heck, you get a 30 day return on them except for the hefty shipping, so I might be able to save a little money and find something a little out of the mainstream. This is coming from a guy who owns Acoustat 3300's with sub at 6' 6" and 33" wide. I did find some folks at the AV Forum who really liked the Rockets and it stirred my curiosity to be different.

 

[VS540]

Will you list your audio equipment used in which your opinion is based? I find it hard to believe. Also, 600 & CM series are not mentioned here. Also, which model Monitor Audio's did you audition? I did a side-by-side test with the GR 20 vs. B&W 703's & 803's. While Monitor Audio had more low end, the detail & purity of the vocals, strings, drums, & so on could not even come close to B&W. There were six audiophiles in the room, and five picked the B&W 703"s & 803's first. The sixth person was a M/A rep. Go figure.

I know the 600 and CM was not mentioned I was stating which speakers I listened to compared to the Rockets. The Monitor Audio's were the Silver series S8's, SLCR, and SFX. Gear used for the 600 series was a Pioneer Elite AVR and dvd player (can't remember models). For the CM were Aragon separates, for the Boston and Atlantic was a Denon AVR and another Pioneer Elite AVR, for the Monitors was a Rotel AVR, and for the Paradigms was a Sony ES AVR and then also Lexicon separates. For the Rockets is a Pioneer Elite 56TXi and soon a separate amp (perhaps Rotel 1095 or Gemstone Blue Diamond).

What's hard to believe? That I have my own personal tastes in audio and didn't like the other speakers I heard? If there was one perfect speaker that EVERYONE liked then there wouldn't be hundreds of brands and thousands of models to choose from. Don't get hung up by the fact people have their own tastes in what sounds good, looks good, feels good or anything else. I happen to like the Rocket sound just like thousands of others also do, then there are thousands who wouldn't.

Also Pete I think the 850's would be a better bet than the 750's in a comparison to B&W 700 series.

 

[furrycute]

That Rocket 750 signature model is by no means a bargain at $1499. You can find several Paradigm and PSB floorstander models for less.

A bit of history on the 750. The original 750 model had a severely rolled off high end, a very boomy bottom end.

The 750 signature model was created in response to all the complaints people brought up. From what I understand, the original 750 model cabinet and drivers were retained for the signature model. I don't know what exactly was changed in the signature model. But I just fail to see how much can be salvaged from a fundamentally flawed original design.

 

[VS540]

That Rocket 750 signature model is by no means a bargain at $1499. You can find several Paradigm and PSB floorstander models for less.

A bit of history on the 750. The original 750 model had a severely rolled off high end, a very boomy bottom end.

The 750 signature model was created in response to all the complaints people brought up. From what I understand, the original 750 model cabinet and drivers were retained for the signature model. I don't know what exactly was changed in the signature model. But I just fail to see how much can be salvaged from a fundamentally flawed original design.

Go to the AV123 forum and ask people what they have compaired their Rockets to and make sure you tell them that how "fundamentally flawed" they all are.

 

[furrycute]

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?threadid=5859

Read it here on how "laid back" the 750 really is. Please note, laid back is euphomism for rolled off high end, exaggerated low end. As to the level of detail the 750 model brings out, I would take that with a grain of salt. The descriptive terms smooth and detailed almost always contradict each other.

The original 750 was hyped to be the best speaker ever made, surpassing the Dunlavy's, Dynaudio's, B&W's, etc. Then the 750 signature came out, and these were hyped to be the best speakers ever made. Then the Onix reference line came out, and those were hyped to be the best speakers ever made. Maybe it's me, but I am skeptical of any company that claims to come out with 3 successive "best speakers in the world" within a span of 2 years. After all, Intel only comes out with a better computer chip once every year or so.

 

[furrycute]

And don't even get me started on the shady internet discussion forum advertising this company engages in. This company is known to use its employees to register at various online audio discussion forums, and from there pose as independent consumers, hyping up the Rocket line of speakers.

Go to www.avsforum.com, and do a search on the keyword "rockets" in the speakers' discussion forum. Read those posts from about a year and a half ago. There was quite a backlash against all the shady shill advertising. The forum administrator checked the IP addresses of those members hyping the Rockets, and guess what, most of those IP addresses belong to one company (you can guess which company it is).


If there is one thing I loathe the most in business, it is dishonesty in advertising. I have no problems with companies doing online advertising, as long as those companies clearly identify themselves as the advertisers. However I have BIG problems with companies engaging in shill advertising, that is using its employees to pose as independent consumers giving favorable reviews to that company's products.

The sound quality of the Rocket line of speakers is average at best (many would say it is below par). Yet that company actively engages in shill advertising, hyping up the sound quality, planting the idea in novice hometheater enthusiasts that they are saving A LOT of money if they purchase internet direct speakers such as the Rockets. This is absolute nonsense. Walk into any respected audio store, and you will find established brand name speakers that offer superior audio quality, compared to the Rockets, at far more attractive prices.

 

[TinHere]

And don't even get me started on the shady internet discussion forum advertising this company engages in. This company is known to use its employees to register at various online audio discussion forums, and from there pose as independent consumers, hyping up the Rocket line of speakers.

Go to www.avsforum.com, and do a search on the keyword "rockets" in the speakers' discussion forum. Read those posts from about a year and a half ago. There was quite a backlash against all the shady shill advertising. The forum administrator checked the IP addresses of those members hyping the Rockets, and guess what, most of those IP addresses belong to one company (you can guess which company it is).


If there is one thing I loathe the most in business, it is dishonesty in advertising. I have no problems with companies doing online advertising, as long as those companies clearly identify themselves as the advertisers. However I have BIG problems with companies engaging in shill advertising, that is using its employees to pose as independent consumers giving favorable reviews to that company's products.

The sound quality of the Rocket line of speakers is average at best (many would say it is below par). Yet that company actively engages in shill advertising, hyping up the sound quality, planting the idea in novice hometheater enthusiasts that they are saving A LOT of money if they purchase internet direct speakers such as the Rockets. This is absolute nonsense. Walk into any respected audio store, and you will find established brand name speakers that offer superior audio quality, compared to the Rockets, at far more attractive prices.

I chanced upon this thread and felt compelled to register and reply to your false allegations of any misrepresentation by AV123. Wherever they post their affiliation with AV123 is declared in their signatures. They aren't paid shills hiding their affiliation. There are many posts that may seem to be written by paid shills, but the reality is that they are written by very satisfied customers. Your false representations of the people who work for AV123.com have been answered ad nauseum on many forums, and are not based in truth. The facts belie your statements. AV123 isn't a huge faceless conglomerate, but comprised of very honorable people that have a reputation for products that often excede expectations and excellent customer service. Both the products and their customer service have been written about glowingly by people that were one time skeptics. Their speakers may not be everone's cup of tea, but the honor with which the company, headed by Mark Schifter, has set a very high standard that has garnered them an enthusiastic following.

Show some proof of the allegations you made about the IP addresses, and then tell me why they are still allowed to post. Not liking their speakers is ok with me, but making false statements about a company and how they they conduct their business practices require more than a statement that I know is a perpetuation of false rumors should not go uncontested. Get the facts before you make statements that only seem intended to damage reputations. The problem AVS had with Rocket's was caused by a small number of people with an agenda to turn any mention of AV123 products into flame wars that subsequently caused the threads to be closed. AV123 has a lot of very satisfied customers that enjoy their products [a matter of personal preference] and laud the way they conduct their business. Your negative statements about them are simply not fact based and sadly are still being perpetuated by some people who are either misinformed or have an agenda.


BTW Pete I own 750 Classics, RSC200[Bigfoot], and 300's which still put a grin on my face. Try to get an audition thru AudioEnvy or post on the AV123.com forum and see if you can get an audition. Many, many people will have very positive things to say about Rocket's and AV123 if you take the time to do some research. Unfortunately the first response you got to your inquiry was loaded with falsehoods, albeit a personal take. Most people comment that the soundstaging is more than adequate, the bass is tight and accurate, and the highs from the Vifa tweeter are detailed without being fatiguing. You may not like the sound of the Rocket's [then try the Reference Series], but you will be hard pressed to find a company that is a better buying experience or offers more support.

Enjoy your choice.

 

[zumbo]

I know the 600 and CM was not mentioned I was stating which speakers I listened to compared to the Rockets. The Monitor Audio's were the Silver series S8's, SLCR, and SFX. Gear used for the 600 series was a Pioneer Elite AVR and dvd player (can't remember models). For the CM were Aragon separates, for the Boston and Atlantic was a Denon AVR and another Pioneer Elite AVR, for the Monitors was a Rotel AVR, and for the Paradigms was a Sony ES AVR and then also Lexicon separates. For the Rockets is a Pioneer Elite 56TXi and soon a separate amp (perhaps Rotel 1095 or Gemstone Blue Diamond).

What's hard to believe? That I have my own personal tastes in audio and didn't like the other speakers I heard? If there was one perfect speaker that EVERYONE liked then there wouldn't be hundreds of brands and thousands of models to choose from. Don't get hung up by the fact people have their own tastes in what sounds good, looks good, feels good or anything else. I happen to like the Rocket sound just like thousands of others also do, then there are thousands who wouldn't.

Also Pete I think the 850's would be a better bet than the 750's in a comparison to B&W 700 series.

Thanks for the reply. This is what I expected. Look at the different equipment used to drive the speakers during the auditions. Of course the Monitor Audio were the best.
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/silver/series/s8.htm. Along with the fact they were on a Rotel! I am sure the Rockets are nice. But in no way do they compete with B&W 700 series & 800 series. Also, you did not list which 600 series was used? I also understand people have their own taste. This is why B&W is a world leader in speaker technology. This is also why Paradigm has grown so quickly!

 

[zumbo]

Everyone is getting too flamed about this. The point is not that the Rockets are not good. The point is, as far as my posting, that they can NOT compare to B&W 703's. NO HOW, NO WAY! PERIOD!

 

[VS540]

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?threadid=5859

Read it here on how "laid back" the 750 really is. Please note, laid back is euphomism for rolled off high end, exaggerated low end. As to the level of detail the 750 model brings out, I would take that with a grain of salt. The descriptive terms smooth and detailed almost always contradict each other.

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6527 I guess this graph is just another lie and part of the "conspiracy"?