RF-7 II or RF-62 II

[ZrC]

I have been on the fence about which set to get. I am moving soon and will have a larger room (15x22) and currently have Emotiva 6.2 speakers. Are the RF-7s that much better than the RF-62s aside from the woofer size? How much of an upgrade would the Klipsch be over the Emotiva speakers? I watch movies about 95% of the time and music only 5%. Also I already have 2 custom built 15" subs powered by 2 bridged EP1500 amps.

 

[Steve81]

Are the RF-7s that much better than the RF-62s aside from the woofer size?

I'd argue that the RF-62 represents a much better value than the RF-7, particularly since you're coupling these with a pair of 15" custom subs and the use is 95% movies. This is further exacerbated by the RF-7's reputed difficulty to drive, in spite of its high specified sensitivity; ie., it needs a meatier amplifier than you'd expect. Crossed over at 80Hz and not pushed to the max, I doubt I'd be able to tell a difference between the two that amounted to thousands of dollars.

How much of an upgrade would the Klipsch be over the Emotiva speakers?

That is entirely up to your ears. Certainly Klipsch does have its advantages, especially for HT. OTOH, if you're not fond of the sound they're putting out, and some really don't care for Klipsch, it's not much of an upgrade.

 

[ZrC]

I'd argue that the RF-62 represents a much better value than the RF-7, particularly since you're coupling these with a pair of 15" custom subs and the use is 95% movies. This is further exacerbated by the RF-7's reputed difficulty to drive, in spite of its high specified sensitivity; ie., it needs a meatier amplifier than you'd expect. Crossed over at 80Hz and not pushed to the max, I doubt I'd be able to tell a difference between the two that amounted to thousands of dollars.



That is entirely up to your ears. Certainly Klipsch does have its advantages, especially for HT. OTOH, if you're not fond of the sound they're putting out, and some really don't care for Klipsch, it's not much of an upgrade.

Thanks for the quick reply. I have heard the RF series before although it was only the RF-42s and didn't mind the horn tweeters. I have heard the RF7s are smoother than the RF62s but are they that much better to be worth the extra money?

 

[Steve81]

I have heard the RF7s are smoother than the RF62s but are they that much better to be worth the extra money?

Not in my book, though subjective opinions will vary.

I would mention that in my experience/opinion, Audyssey did help to tame/balance the sound of the Klipsch setup in my basement (RF-5s, RC-35, RF-15s).

 

[ImcLoud]

I don't see a big improvement if any over the emo 6.2 s.

If your fronts are crossed at 80 and you only listen to 5 percent music. I think you are fine, what are you powering them with. I personally like bookshelfs for my front 3. A tower doesn't offer much difference since the larger cabinet helps the low end but you don't need low end when your crossed. And having identical front 3 always sounds better than having 2 towers and 1 center. Even if they are meant to go together you can say the center with 1/2 the volume makes the same sound as a tower with the same components.
And a large pair of bookshelfs will fill even the biggest rooms as long as you have the power. My 340 s effortlessly fill my 400 sq ft room.
Now if you do a lot of music listening you may want towers that are very capable of plaing music direct. But 5 percent music isn't going to make a difference... I like having two separate systems..

 

[Steve81]

A tower doesn't offer much difference since the larger cabinet helps the low end but you don't need low end when your crossed.

In this case, its less about raw low end extension, and more about added efficiency and clean output capability in the 80Hz region. I mean, to be fair, your Ascend 340s aren't exactly what most people think of when they're talking about bookshelf speakers, and they are billed as mini-towers.

 

[ZrC]

I don't see a big improvement if any over the emo 6.2 s.

If your fronts are crossed at 80 and you only listen to 5 percent music. I think you are fine, what are you powering them with. I personally like bookshelfs for my front 3. A tower doesn't offer much difference since the larger cabinet helps the low end but you don't need low end when your crossed. And having identical front 3 always sounds better than having 2 towers and 1 center. Even if they are meant to go together you can say the center with 1/2 the volume makes the same sound as a tower with the same components.
And a large pair of bookshelfs will fill even the biggest rooms as long as you have the power. My 340 s effortlessly fill my 400 sq ft room.
Now if you do a lot of music listening you may want towers that are very capable of plaing music direct. But 5 percent music isn't going to make a difference... I like having two separate systems..

My front 3 are identical XRC-6.2s. The center is crossed at 70hz while the LR are 50hz. They are being powered by a UPA-500 (120 wpc 4ohm) but I plan on upgraded to separate amps for the LCR channels soon as it does seem to struggle when pushed.

 

[Steve81]

My front 3 are identical XRC-6.2s. The center is crossed at 70hz while the LR are 50hz. They are being powered by a UPA-500 (120 wpc 4ohm) but I plan on upgraded to separate amps for the LCR channels soon as it does seem to struggle when pushed.

I'd raise the XO on them all to 80Hz to start with. No need to have them producing bass when you've got ample subwooferage on hand.

 

[ZrC]

I'd raise the XO on them all to 80Hz to start with. No need to have them producing bass when you've got ample subwooferage on hand.

I will give that a try soon. Since the speakers are pretty inefficient, would it make sense to upgrade the amps also? I was thinking of getting a few Crown XLS 1500s to power them.

 

[Steve81]

I will give that a try soon. Since the speakers are pretty inefficient, would it make sense to upgrade the amps also? I was thinking of getting a few Crown XLS 1500s to power them.

Depends on how loud you're looking to push them.

I will say they're not as inefficient as the specifications would lead you to believe from what I've seen. In fact, they're rather honest unlike many companies out there. I say that based on the XRT-52's specifications versus actual measurements by Stereophile:

XRT-5.2 X-Ref Towers (pair)

Emotiva X-Ref XRT-5.2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

You'll note a rated sensitivity of 86dB w/ 2.83 volts versus 87dB w/ 2.83 volts actual, and this is quasi-anechoic. Klipsch for example rates sensitivity in room, which helps to explain things like this:

Klipsch RB-15 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Despite its diminutive dimensions, the RB-15 offered above-average sensitivity, at an estimated 90dB(B)/2.83V/m. Though this is slightly below the specified figure of 93dB

I'd also note that Emo rates the above speakers as 4 ohm nominal whereas many manufacturers would probably list them as 8 ohm speakers.

 

[ImcLoud]

Raising your fronts to 80 will free up a little power for your highs and mids, I would try that first...
I am not a fan of the klipsch speakers you listed, most of the klipsch and energy speakers I have spent time with are too bright for me, and when listening for a long time, they get tiring...

So were you planning on buying a new front 3 or just towers? Im confused?

Anyway if you were buying a rf7ii front 3 you will spend a few thousand... That doesnt seem like a good idea to me...

With that budget I would go with an XPA3 and FOCAL Chorus 814V 716v Dual 6½ Floorstanding Speakers Gloss Black Pair | Accessories4less with the matching center and the amp you will only spend around $2000...

If you have your heart on a front set with large drivers, I would go for Opus 2-3's and the crown amp, I can get opus 2-3s for $3000 shipped and them put the rf7ii to shame... I think they handle 600 watts too...

 

[ZrC]

Raising your fronts to 80 will free up a little power for your highs and mids, I would try that first...
I am not a fan of the klipsch speakers you listed, most of the klipsch and energy speakers I have spent time with are too bright for me, and when listening for a long time, they get tiring...

So were you planning on buying a new front 3 or just towers? Im confused?

Anyway if you were buying a rf7ii front 3 you will spend a few thousand... That doesnt seem like a good idea to me...

With that budget I would go with an XPA3 and FOCAL Chorus 814V 716v Dual 6½ Floorstanding Speakers Gloss Black Pair | Accessories4less[/url] with the matching center and the amp you will only spend around $2000...

If you have your heart on a front set with large drivers, I would go for Opus 2-3's and the crown amp, I can get opus 2-3s for $3000 shipped and them put the rf7ii to shame... I think they handle 600 watts too...

The front 3 I was considering to replace. They will be behind an audio transparent screen so the towers didn't matter either way. If I can get away with just changing the crossovers and maybe feeding them more power I would rather go that route. The large drivers on the speakers don't mean too much but having a 6.5" woofer sounded better than the 5.25s I demoed, at least for movie use.

 

[Steve81]

Raising your fronts to 80 will free up a little power for your highs and mids, I would try that first...

Just to chime in with one more detail, it's not just about power, but driver excursion. As a simple example, lets say you've got a woofer in a sealed alignment that needs 5mm of xmax to deliver 100dB at 80Hz. OK, well that's nothing too extraordinary. However, if you ramp things up (down?) to 40Hz, things look a bit different. To achieve that same 100dB, you need 4 times the throw. With a mere 40Hz difference, you went from needing 5mm of xmax to 20mm of xmax. Hope this provides a little perspective.

 

[ZrC]

Just to chime in with one more detail, it's not just about power, but driver excursion. As a simple example, lets say you've got a woofer in a sealed alignment that needs 5mm of xmax to deliver 100dB at 80Hz. OK, well that's nothing too extraordinary. However, if you ramp things up (down?) to 40Hz, things look a bit different. To achieve that same 100dB, you need 4 times the throw. With a mere 40Hz difference, you went from needing 5mm of xmax to 20mm of xmax. Hope this provides a little perspective.

Makes a lot more sense, the speakers are ported and have a decent amount of excursion but nothing great. I will set them all to 80 and re calibrate it.

 

[Drumheller]

If you have a Frys Electronics near you, the Klipsch RF line is on sale at 20% off right now (at least in Phoenix). It's not advertised. I found out when I went in on Sunday to listen. Checked the prices and they were indeed 20% lower than elsewhere. I don't know if they carry the RF-7 II but they do have the RF-62 II and RF-82 II.

 

[ZrC]

Unfortunately I am not near a Frys.

I did change my LCR to 80hz and tweaked the setting s bit more which did help a lot. For normal movie listening everything sounds great, but when pushed to reference levels they seem to not get the power needed. Would 2-3 crown XLS 1500s bridged make much of a difference?

 

[ImcLoud]

Unfortunately I am not near a Frys.

I did change my LCR to 80hz and tweaked the setting s bit more which did help a lot. For normal movie listening everything sounds great, but when pushed to reference levels they seem to not get the power needed. Would 2-3 crown XLS 1500s bridged make much of a difference?

of course it would be a ton of power, lol....

I dont think that is necessary...

Now obviously you are not running movies at reference level so this is for music?
If so do your self a favor and buy a pair of Dayton APA150's, run them bridged to your 2 front towers, that will give you a true {class a/b} 150watts each.. For a mere $256 shipped!! Before the sale ends and they go back up to $320!!!!
I own these amps, and they go louder than you will want to listen, believe me... I sat these with a set of lsi7's for years {4 ohm bookshelfs} bridged and played loud because they were in the storage house which his like half the size of a walmart, never had a problem with them, never got hot always sounded clean and never clipped....

Emotiva designed them amps and they are decent...

This will free up your avr's power for the center and surrounds....

 

[Steve81]

Would 2-3 crown XLS 1500s bridged make much of a difference?

FWIW, I'd recommend playing around with this calculator:

Peak SPL Calculator

to get an idea of how much power you'd need. Leave the # of speakers as one, plug in 87dB for sensitivity, and then see how much power you need per channel to hit a 105dB peak on each (works into 8 ohms). Of course it's worth keeping in mind, full reference is a big demand on subwoofers as well; the LFE channel can peak at up to 115dB, and with bass management rerouting bass from other channels, a subwoofer(s) can be expected to deliver up to 123dB at the listening position.

 

[ZrC]

FWIW, I'd recommend playing around with this calculator:

Peak SPL Calculator

to get an idea of how much power you'd need. Leave the # of speakers as one, plug in 87dB for sensitivity, and then see how much power you need per channel to hit a 105dB peak on each (works into 8 ohms). Of course it's worth keeping in mind, full reference is a big demand on subwoofers as well; the LFE channel can peak at up to 115dB, and with bass management rerouting bass from other channels, a subwoofer(s) can be expected to deliver up to 123dB at the listening position.

Just checking to see if this is right. It seems I would need around 650 watts for the front 3 channels to hit 105db at my seating distance. Currently my UPA-500 can do 120w at 4ohms which gets me 97db. Would the 8db even be worth it?

 

[Steve81]

Just checking to see if this is right. It seems I would need around 650 watts for the front 3 channels to hit 105db at my seating distance.

It's a rough estimate. You'll get some gain for in room vs the anechoic sensitivity spec(~3dB) and this is a peak figure (most amplifiers can swing some additional juice for such instances). On the other hand, the calculator gives answers assuming a nominal 8 ohm impedance; at frequencies where your speakers are 4 ohm, the wattage estimate doubles.

Would the 8db even be worth it?

Always a fun question.

Personally, my HT system was predicated on the notion that it should be capable of giving a decent accounting if itself at full reference level. Of course, now that I've filled in the last piece of the puzzle (the subwoofer), I find that I'm usually listening at a much lower level than before the sub was replaced, hovering around -15dB from reference. YMMV.