Renamed: $2000-$2500 to spend on 7.0, What would you buy?

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

I renamed this thread from "Replacing all speakers in HT with Def Tech 8040's..." because a) I didn't know how to rename until just now and b) I think this is more appropriate. However, I am still considering the DefTech's... but I'm looking for more input.

All,

I'm new here but have followed advice found here dozens of times in the past so let me jump right into it.

I have had the luxury of building my HT from scratch and it's been up and running now for about a year.
Two links to pictures of the entire process through the end result.
Basement construction from beginning through end: http://www.rittz.net/progress-basement/
Basement in its finished state: http://www.rittz.net/basement-complete/
The thumbnail version for quick reference: http://www.rittz.net/basement-complete/images.html

Unfortunately getting a good web page that will dynamically list my pictures so I don't have to manually create a page for all of them also means, you may be better off going with Internet Explorer vs Chrome. That's just me, maybe you will have a different experience. The first two web links/URL's are in .php which I know virtually nothing about.

I am currently running this in my HT:
Denon 3311CI (I use audyssey for calibration)
Sony BDP-5500
Apple TV 3rd Gen
Logitech Harmony Smart Control
Epson 5025UB
120" Projection Screen
Elemental Designs A4.t surrounds
Elemental Designs A6.t front towers
Elemental Designs (forgot the model) center channel
HSU Research VTF-2 MK3 (12" down firing)
HSU Research VTF-15H MK1 (15" front firing)

I believe that covers everything. The wiring is basically 12ga. monoprice CL2 stranded copper. Each speaker location has two runs (redundant) which also brings the effective gauge to 9. Each corner of my room has dedicated sub (coax) and power. I've treated 25-33% of the walls with sound treatments. In the corners I also use bass traps.

The ceiling has Roxul safe n sound insulation. The adjoining wall has homasote as an additional sound barrier. I opted not to go with the additional channeling (forget the name) in the ceiling for added sound proofing... tooooo much work.

So now my ultimate question is this...

I am considering replacing my entire setup with the Definitive Technology 8040 series speaker line. The entire line is bipolar. Also, I would (if I deem it to be wise) use the front towers with additional subs more for mid-bass to fill that gap a little better. I would certainly not use them as LFE's. To me either those subs are not used (which would be a huge waste), or I configure them for mid-bass and cut them off around 100Hz? Not sure on that part yet either.

Main reason I'm considering this is the price seems to be way down for the Def Tech 8040's... Currently would get all 7 channels for 2100'ish. If there is an obvious better choice, I would also be willing to consider this.

Please, any and all feedback would be wonderful.

Thank you,
Jaime

 

[slipperybidness]

Kind of a waste to use towers for surrounds, but not too bad especially if you have a large room. Or at least consider the 8020 as the surrounds and center.

If you aren't planning to use the DT built in subs, then just get a Bipolar DT that doesn't have the built in subs.

Be aware, since these are bipolar designs, you will likely want to set them up farther from the rear wall than you would with a typical monopole.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

Oh I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I did not mean all towers. I meant the 8040 towers in front. 8040 center channel and 8040 surrounds. I just didn't spell out the specific models from the 8040 line as there are only one speaker type for each location.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

The models:
Surrounds: SR-8040BP x 4
Center: CS-8040HD x 1
Fronts: BP-8040ST x 2

These will run me about ~$2100

I was looking at the SVS Primes and the Ascend's. Even the Fluent Sigs look nice except for the current hot topic of the crossover of the mid's issue.

Honestly, there are so many choices out there and I've read and researched until my eyes bleed. Is there nothing for 7.0 that's clearly better than the rest at around ~$2000 for the set?

Soooooo daunting, it's wearing me out.

 

[jonnythan]

I'd be really surprised if those Def Tech's sounded any better than the ED system you already have. Have you listened to them? What do you want out of an upgrade? What do the EDs not do that you want?

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

Well, I wondered that very same thing myself. I'm looking for an upgrade and so here's where I'm at mentally...

To directly answer your questions...
1. I have not listened to them (or any others), I don't have any options around me here in Paw Paw, MI.
2. What I want out of an upgrade is a higher quality HT setup... the "next step", if you will.
3. I can't say they are lacking... because, in my limited speaker experience, they're kinda all I really know.
There's only things mentally that cause me to doubt them and consider an upgrade... They company does not exist any longer. They are all but forgotten. Other speakers have gotten my attention because of the "homemade" feel I get with all things considered. I'm financially ready to upgrade. The grass is greener? You get what you pay for? There are a lot of things going on in my head right now.


Now here's the long-winded version of what's on my mind...
eD is no longer, we all know this. eD when in business, sold a lot of equipment. It's not to say I'm dissatisfied with what I have more than I was thinking these would be a good upgrade. I'm certainly not looking for something equivalent (I'm looking for an upgrade, not a lateral move). I've kinda fallen out of love with what I have. You know how upgradeitis can be. They seem "janky" to me because they're kinda like homemade. So I don't have the gut feeling that I have a great finished product.

I'm totally willing to buy sight unseen (or unheard ) but that's only after enough research. I never heard my eD's before I bought them.

When I bought them, at the end of 2010, I had only believed they were a good value for the sound I was getting. It was my first set of speakers that wasn't from an Onkyo HTIB. At this point since eD is all but forgotten and I don't really have a good way to compare. I live in an area that doesn't have any options to go and listen for a comparison. I live in Paw Paw, MI (near Kalamazoo/Portage, MI).

I'm mostly in the belief that you get what you pay for. In my case, 4xA4.b's, ($136/pr), 1xA6.mtm ($175), and 2xA6.t ($425/pr), I spent a total of ~$875. It appears to me jumping into a $3000 7.0 set of DefTech's seemed to be a fairly large upgrade.

Right now, I have the impression the grass is greener...

I have nobody around me that I know where I can discuss and debate new purchases like this, hence, why I am now here asking for opinions.

Now as far as DefTech's... I'm not convinced these are "the ones", but they aren't shabby IMO. But I've now begun scouring all forums I can find but with as much info that's out there, I find it easier if someone (hopefully multiple someones) simply point out some "best bang for the buck" priced around $2000... kinda soliciting for someone to talking me out of the DefTech's if there is indeed something with a better bang for the buck I haven't run across yet.

Please remember, I'm looking for a 7.0 system.

Sorry for being long-winded.

Regards,
Jaime

 

[jonnythan]

I really don't think you want any kind of bipole or reflecting speaker for your front soundstage for HT. Those reflections might give the sound a "room filling" sort of feel, but they will throw time accuracy off with echoes and accentuate certain frequencies. There are plenty of other good options.

 

[Stempy]

I'm in the same boat you are in, except I was looking at the 8060's. I went to the local BB Magnolia to audition them and....well, I was sorely disappointed They were very muddy, lacked a higher end and the bass simply overpowered everything. I am currently leaning toward the new elac uni fi line or the fluance signature series once the XO is worked out (if it even happens).

 

[BlwnAway]

Personally I'm a DefTech fan, have been for years and like their sound, and have all Bi-Pole Supertowers for the bed layer of my system, but....
You do have to listen to them and see if "you" like them, there's no way myself or anyone else can tell what you like or tell you what you should like. And unfortunately, with bi-poles, setup is key and many retailers will not have them setup correctly, all you can hopefully do is ask to move them around some so you can see how the sound signature changes.

And, of you do decide you like them, there's a couple of things to know:
- The Fronts will need room to breathe in your space, they need at least 8" behind them (to allow the rear driver reflection to work properly) and at least 10-12" to the side for the powered woofers.
- *Note* I called them Powered Woofers, not Subs, they shouldn't be considered or used as Subs unless it's temporary or you have no other choice (then you can consider them as a bookshelf mounted on top of a "small" Sub), they should really be considered powered woofers to allow the speaker to be used as a Full Range speaker. (Just didn't want you disillusioned in any way)
- The Center will also need room to breathe above it for the bass to work properly, shove it in a cabinet and your basically changing their entire sound and negating the reason for their design.
- Finally, don't let the number series fool you, the best performing match to the BP8040st's is actually the CS8060HD Center and SR8080bp Surrounds.

If you like DefTech's sound and aren't sold on the Supertowers or Bi-Poles, look into the Studio Monitor line, great bang-4-buck, and a system based off of the SM65's will give you surprisingly great performance for their size.

Good Luck

 

[jonnythan]

I will say there's a reason basically no one else uses that design.

Well, there is one company I can think of that also touts the reflecting/bipole sort of main speaker. Bose.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

Oh, that hurts... I find that very amusing.

Please keep in mind, the search IS NOT OVER... With that being said... I paid for them tonight, not because I decided but because with the amount they're priced down right now, I figured I'd at least get them in the event they go back up before I finalize my decision.

I purchased:
Surrounds: SR-8040BP x 4
Center: CS-8060HD x 1
Fronts: BP-8040ST x 2

But, isn't there some validity to all the reviews around the internet? Not just the big box store reviews...

Ok so I do understand there are just that many options out there so it is not a straight forward endeavor. But at the very least, there has to be a way to tier certain brands/models together so you understand where you stand when you're looking at any given mainstream/name brand.

This is more what I'm looking for really. Do I wish it was as easy as someone saying... you want to spend 2000-2500... here's what you should look at. They are superior to most others on the Internet.

But at least some pointers. I know when you look for subs, that's more straight forward and I could easily see a discussion quickly turning into a simple equation. How much do you want to spend + how big is your room = you need to look at brand A, B, and Y.

Can anybody sum up an awesome brand/model line or three (within the price range)? What I'm looking for is a few good solid suggestions... from there I can research and narrow things down. I know enough to be dangerous... but not been in the game long enough to really know where the sweet spots are for the various price ranges.

One big thing I'm not 100% keen on is the fact I now need power at the all three LCR channels.

Please keep the comments coming.

Thank you,
Jaime

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

BlwnAway: I think I mentioned it before but the way I would treat the LR channels as full range speakers. Not using them as LFE's. I would more or less hope for it to fill in the mid-bass frequency range.

My front stage area has room to have them away from the wall a bit... ignore the trash can holding up my center channel... the other pics clearly shows I have a proper stand now.

And here's a few more pics because I'm sure most have not looked through my very cumbersome picture library in the OP.

 

[BlwnAway]

Ya, that was a little harsh comparing DefTech to Bose...

Just remember when you get them, speaker wire only to start, don't worry about the RCA connections on the fronts at all unless you "need" to use them as a bookshelf/sub combo, until you decide if you may keep them and play with things some.
+ Never hook up LFE to the Center, speaker wire only, or speaker wire and Full Range Signal.
And don't forget to play with their positioning and toe, this can make a big difference with this type of speaker.

Just experiment and enjoy it while your deciding.

Oops...posted this at the same time as you, I'll just leave it alone in case others are interested.

Beautiful Room BTW!

Oh, my Front Wall:

BP2000's & CLR3000.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

Yeah, it did take me a few to find out if I could just use speaker wire on the fronts and still use the subs contained within... and yes, you can do either so that's a very nice design/feature with the towers.

 

[jonnythan]

Damn. Nice setups there.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

Thanks man... now it's time to fill it in with a more robust setup. I figure I'm on the 5-year plan. I'm working on 2k-2.5k this time and in about 5 years I can do something real serious, maybe getting into something a little more than just an AVR.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

BlwnAway, didn't I see your room as you were putting it together over on avsforum? If not, it's damn near identical to one I saw a couple nights ago.

 

[BlwnAway]

Probably, my screen name there is ALtlOff, I had signed up here years before I bought the new house and used my car forum name, for some reason when I signed up over at AVS it wouldn't let me use it, so I thought the new one was appropriate with what I was planning.

As much as I love my DefTech's, I really do try and be impartial, and just help if I can. I know that they're not for everyone.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

The hunt for "just the right speakers" is very daunting. I hope I am not analyzing this too much (probably, from everybody else's perspective). At this point, SVS has my eye and how strongly they stand behind their products and so at this point I'm considering two hugely different brands/speaker types.

The DefTech bipolar design across the entire line has me perplexed. I understand that many people have been very happy with the DefTech's... but I second guess these because a big box store isn't supposed to carry the good stuff, right? Yeah, please ignore my ranting, it's stupid.

The same can be said for the people that end up with SVS Primes too. The brand recognition and the following they have, there's something to be said about that as well. I was caught up on my sub purchases between Hsu and SVS... and obviously I ended up with Hsu but often wonder how different it would be had I purchased the SVS subs.

I'm pretty damn close to pulling the trigger but I'm going to shoot SVS an email and see what they have to say about my dilemma, er... my questions.

 

[shadyJ]

For a significant and easily noticeable upgrade, you need to either up your budget, or just limit your upgrade to the front three. Will 2k get you a slightly better sound, yes, but do you want to drop $2k for something that is only slightly better? I would be looking at pro-audio speakers for a dedicated room, unless you really want the speakers to look pretty. You seem intent on throwing away a lot of money on a lateral move otherwise.