REL Acoustics HT/1510 Predator II Subwoofer Review

[gene]

 

[TankTop5]

Just watched a Rel demo on YouTube, I love what Rel says about their Subs right around the 8:50 mark… “we have the fastest electrical output of any subwoofer and the only way you can achieve similar results is using DSP”. Well now we have lots more powerful subwoofers and pretty much everyone is using DSP. I guess there’s no point in putting down the extra money for an inferior subwoofer. Thanks Rel for clearing that up for us.

 

[Luky.Kluk]

Thank you @shadyJ for this long time awaited meassurements of REL subwoofer. Every other review to this date were just impressions without any technical backround.
Don't know how do you get this unit, but if it was from a distributor would love to see other more stereo oriented subs like s510 or s812 (dont care about the small T series).
Local distributor have one s510 paired with 5.1.2 Focal 300 inwalls / Lyngdorf pre-pro / Emotiva poweramps in dedicated acousticly treated room and I was blown away by the quality of the whole setup. Scenes from Bladerunner 2049 (eye intro) or John Wick 2 (dungeon shoot-out) were impecable. So would love to see the CEA/CTA measurements and how will corellate with the experience.

 

[3db]

Why spend $1900 on this sub for lower group delays when ported subs at that price point perform significantly better and with no effect on sound quality with slightly higher group delay? I dont see any value in this sub. Its clear their marketing literature targets audiophilia filled with all kinds of nonsense.

 

[paveldeg]

Nice woofer, the only thing I don't get is HT1205 goes down to 22Hz, and this one triple the price, size and weight is only 20Hz...

 

[shadyJ]

Nice woofer, the only thing I don't get is HT1205 goes down to 22Hz, and this one triple the price, size and weight is only 20Hz...

The shape of the response curve could be anything. That could be an EQ'd shape. The difference is how much displacement does it have at 20Hz? The 1510 will have far more displacement capability.

 

[paveldeg]

The shape of the response curve could be anything. That could be an EQ'd shape. The difference is how much displacement does it have at 20Hz? The 1510 will have far more displacement capability.

If the shape can be anything, why not make it 17 Hz? For a 15" driver most people expect far more that 20 Hz at 6 Db.

 

[shadyJ]

If the shape can be anything, why not make it 17 Hz? For a 15" driver most people expect far more that 20 Hz at 6 Db.

The answer to that is known only by Rel. However, most sealed subwoofers would not naturally have a -6dB point of 20Hz no matter how large the driver is.

 

[XaVierDK]

If the shape can be anything, why not make it 17 Hz? For a 15" driver most people expect far more that 20 Hz at 6 Db.

My guess, considering we're talking about REL, is that they wanted to avoid aggressive response-shaping to minimise their use of filters.
Specifically, -6dB at 20 Hz is, IIRC, THX standard, where it's expected the room will help linearise the response flat. In addition any excessive shaping would result in a loss of headroom (if they wanted a -6dB point of 15 you'd need to sacrifice a heap of output elsewhere, or have dynamic limiters, which they apparently didn't want to employ to avoid the response shifting with SPL)
Looking at @shadyJ's measurements, lifting 15 Hz by 10 dB to extend the output would need a heap of extra filters and a more aggressive protection-scheme, sacrificing headroom and trying to force the driver to do something it doesn't do very well to begin with.

 

[CyberAthlete]

So what would be considered a good out the door price (taxes + shipping included) for this subwoofer since folks state not worth at the asking price but never mention at what price point it becomes a good buy.

 

[paveldeg]

So what would be considered a good out the door price (taxes + shipping included) for this subwoofer since folks state not worth at the asking price but never mention at what price point it becomes a good buy.

I would rather get 2x Ht/1205, they are on sale now, less money for higher overall output. REL makes excellent subs, they would be already out of business if they weren't, so listen to critics here with a bit of salt, many are sales bots for competitors.

 

[XaVierDK]

So what would be considered a good out the door price (taxes + shipping included) for this subwoofer since folks state not worth at the asking price but never mention at what price point it becomes a good buy.

To me, it's whether it's priced right for the buyer.
It has similar performance to a Starke SW-15, which costs half as much, roughly. So anyone buying this would have to be willing to spend twice as much for aesthetics and twice the amplifier power, for what that's worth

 

[paveldeg]

With Starke SW-15 one would get half performance for half price - cheap build and aesthetics, half amp power, half SPL, much higher group delay after 40 Hz.

 

[XaVierDK]

With Starke SW-15 one would get half performance for half price - cheap build and aesthetics, half amp power, half SPL, much higher group delay after 40 Hz.

I'm sorry but no. CEA-2010 burst from AH testing shows same output at 20 Hz, 25 Hz, roughly a 1db advantage for REL at 31.5 Hz, and 3dB more for REL at 40. Presumably the higher amplifier power comes into play above 35 Hz, and the REL does show more sustained output, being able to maintain 100dB at closer to 24 Hz as compared to 27-28 for the Starke, again I presume because of the bigger amplifier, but for burst sub bass they are exceedingly similar.
And if you want more grunt above 35 Hz with the Starke, stack two and gain 6dB across the board, now obliterating the 1510 in deep bass.
Group delay might be lower, but I'd argue we're well within inaudible limits for both, as neither exceed one cycle ever. Distortion profiles for both show good behavior when pushed, for sealed subs.

You're paying for build-quality, aesthetics and brand with REL, as well as slightly better sustained output capabilities, and that might be worth double the money to some buyers.

 

[paveldeg]

CEA-2010 burst from AH testing shows same output at 20 Hz, 25 Hz, roughly a 1db advantage for REL at 31.5 Hz, and 3dB more for REL at 40.

You're paying for build-quality, aesthetics and brand with REL, as well as slightly better sustained output capabilities, and that might be worth double the money to some buyers.

3 Db is a lot of SPL to gain, 2x power == 3 dB, and 31-40 Hz is the region with most content. But yeah, to each its own.