Recording studio monitors vs HT speakers

[Joe Schmoe]

Remember, studio monitors are not typically designed to have a wide dispersion. They are designed to create perfection at one spot.

Maybe that is why I enjoy mine as much as I do. I always listen sitting in the sweet spot, always sit still and concentrate on the sound (often with eyes closed), and rarely have guests. On those occasions when I do have guests, I allow each of them a turn in the "captain's chair".

 

[WmAx]

Disagree with me? What a surprise, Sheep.

Check out what designers say, such as Jim Salk's quote here....

"Speaker design is all about trade-offs. This is because there is no such thing as a perfect speaker driver. Every driver exhibits a certain level of distortion and has a certain amount of veiling. Distortion adds the illusion of warmth and veiling masks detail."

I wasn't referring to anything other than the drivers for my point, which you seemed to miss. That is namely that 'neutrality' of a speaker's sound is different from 'detail'. You are of course correct that there are other qualities of speaker design affect performance, as well.

But what degree of 'veil'? With relative ease, I can select drivers, design the appropriate crossover, and put them in the proper cabinet(CRITICAL) that is non-resonant, and end up with a speaker system that is void of any actual (as opposed to imagined) specifically detectable coloration. By this, I mean I can RECORD the output of the speaker with a calibrated measurement microphone that has a dead flat response in an anechoic space and compare it to the original music signal, and it's extremely difficult to tell the difference in blind tested comparison. It is true that many drivers have problems; but you can also find plenty today that will work fine if you know how to select and work with them, as well as how to properly apply the design to a specific application.

BTW, I usually automatically consider someone that uses descriptions like you quoted to be not useful for real information. With ambiguous descriptions like that, I expect this person has some colorful 'descriptions' about other things as well.

-Chris

 

[Nick250]

Remember, studio monitors are not typically designed to have a wide dispersion. They are designed to create perfection at one spot. HT speakers are designed to create a 'good' listening area.

Not to mention that recording studios have acoustic paneling all over the place, just look at a picture of one, and the speakers are also heavily EQed from what I have read.

Nick

 

[WmAx]

But what he also showed, is that many ordinary drive units can become excellent speakers when they don't have a poorly designed boxes, and crossovers pulling them down. He had a tweeter that could be found on speakers sold at radio shack. Missed that didn't you? His sub driver was made by kicker. The suspension and decoupling assembly for his midrange driver was what made the biggest improvement in the speakers overall sound, not a $2,000 driver.

There was nothing ordinary about the drivers used. At the time (a few years ago), the C series Solo-Baric (the old round style) was a relatively good woofer to use, compared to what else was on the market at that time. The midrange used was also unusually free of resonances(it is a highly damped lossy foam core diaphgragm with kevlar layer on each side for stiffness), and the tweeter, it has a unique polar response, and is the major defining characteristic of that speaker system. The low resonance construction is critical; but that alone will not ensure a good speaker system. As I have said elsewhere, I would not repeat that design, because superior options are available today with the wide selection and type of drivers available.

That being said..... drivers used in some speakers are far better than what the end result of said speaker may lead one to conclude. An example is the Infinity Primus line. The drivers themselves are a far higher grade than what may be assumed from the end result in the Primus systems.

-Chris

 

[Tomorrow]

But what degree of 'veil'? With relative ease, I can select drivers, design the appropriate crossover, and put them in the proper cabinet(CRITICAL) that is non-resonant, and end up with a speaker system that is void of any actual (as opposed to imagined) specifically detectable coloration. By this, I mean I can RECORD the output of the speaker with a calibrated measurement microphone that has a dead flat response in an anechoic space and compare it to the original music signal, and it's extremely difficult to tell the difference in blind tested comparison. It is true that many drivers have problems; but you can also find plenty today that will work fine if you know how to select and work with them, as well as how to properly apply the design to a specific application.

BTW, I usually automatically consider someone that uses descriptions like you quoted to be not useful for real information. With ambiguous descriptions like that, I expect this person has some colorful 'descriptions' about other things as well.

-Chris

Chris,

I think that Jim Salk (a renowned speaker designer) was on the button with his comment. That quote was in response to a discussion of someone talking about "Warm" speakers. ('Tis a problem when taking short comments out of their context.) But he is correct, there is no such thing as a perfect driver and ALL drivers impart distortion. What you and Sheep seem to be talking about has nothing at all to do with, and doesn't negate any of my original or follow-up comments.

I don't know why you and Sheep are taking issue with what I said. (Well, Sheep's disagreement I understand, as he has a burr under his saddle blanket.) I think it would behoove you and Sheep (who put words into my post that weren't there) to carefully reread what I said. This is the gist of those posts....
1. All drivers impart distortion...there is no perfect driver. (TRUE or FALSE?)
2. USUALLY (!) cheap speakers mean cheap drivers and USUALLY (!) cheap speakers mean distorted drivers. (TRUE or FALSE?)
3. Being "neutral" does not equate with being "detailed". (TRUE or FALSE?)

I further agreed that there are many speaker design elements that affect the ultimate performance of a loudspeaker and that some distortion may be inaudible is a given. You'll also recall that I was responding to the OP and the OP's question about the "neutrality" of pro-style monitors (not WmAx custom designs, lol...which by the way, I'd still kill for ). I was making a statement about generally available speakers and not what is 'possible' in speaker design.

 

[WmAx]

Chris,

I think that Jim Salk (a renowned speaker designer) was on the button with his comment. That quote was in response to a discussion of someone talking about "Warm" speakers. ('Tis a problem when taking short comments out of their context.)

'Renowned speaker designer' has no meaning to me, other than, some people like his stuff and talk about it.

1. All drivers impart distortion...there is no perfect driver. (TRUE or FALSE?)

True. Refer to my first comment to you. To what degree is the distortion? Certainly, a properly executed design will have little to no audible added distortion, so on that basis, the distortion is more of an academic point, not a practical one.

2. USUALLY (!) cheap speakers mean cheap drivers and USUALLY (!) cheap speakers mean distorted drivers. (TRUE or FALSE?)

True(usually).

3. Being "neutral" does not equate with being "detailed". (TRUE or FALSE?)

I equate the two. If it is really a neutral driver, it imparts no distortion that would mask detail. However, on another note, distortion(linear distortion) can add false detail. It can also mask it under the right conditions.

You'll also recall that I was responding to the OP and the OP's question about the "neutrality" of pro-style monitors (not WmAx custom designs, lol...which by the way, I'd still kill for ). I was making a statement about generally available speakers and not what is 'possible' in speaker design.

On the note of pro-style monitors: they are typically designed to have a linear frequency response. However, they typically have the same resonance issues as typical home speaker systems. However, in the environment that they are meant to be used(near or mid field with HEAVY treated environment to practically remove all or most room interaction), resonances are less audible, as compared to using the systems in normal rooms.

And if you really wanted a speaker system from me, you can always PM me for details.

-Chris

 

[Tomorrow]

And if you really wanted a speaker system from me, you can always PM me for details.

-Chris

I'm afraid I'd have to mug someone, like...say...Majorloser, to merely be able to afford the shipping of those freezer-sized babies! Don't tempt me, lol. But, yeah...I dream of such an acquisition. Perhaps in another (wealthier) life.

 

[Sheep]

There was nothing ordinary about the drivers used. At the time (a few years ago), the C series Solo-Baric (the old round style) was a relatively good woofer to use, compared to what else was on the market at that time. The midrange used was also unusually free of resonances(it is a highly damped lossy foam core diaphgragm with kevlar layer on each side for stiffness), and the tweeter, it has a unique polar response, and is the major defining characteristic of that speaker system. The low resonance construction is critical; but that alone will not ensure a good speaker system. As I have said elsewhere, I would not repeat that design, because superior options are available today with the wide selection and type of drivers available.

That being said..... drivers used in some speakers are far better than what the end result of said speaker may lead one to conclude. An example is the Infinity Primus line. The drivers themselves are a far higher grade than what may be assumed from the end result in the Primus systems.

-Chris

I meant ordinary regarding the price... obviously they drivers perform well.

SheepStar

 

[iGirl]

Conclusion?...nah.

Thanks for all the discussion on this - interesting and informative! I suppose the bottom line is inconclusive - as so much has to do with room acoustics, audience size, setup, aesthetics, and all the other gear that makes the speakers become just one cog in the wheel. In the end we are nearly all limited in budget and room and end up selecting what fits best for our particular situation...some may find that looking for speakers beyond the targeted HT market might work quite well, and even save them a lot of money! I suppose the converse could be true too (except for the money part! Then there's those for whom money is no object...

 

[fmw]

The main difference is that pro audio recording studio speakers are near field monitors designed to be placed very close to the listener so that the listener doesn't hear any room acoustic effects or reflected sound. Usually, they are mounted above the mixer and aimed down at the technician. They are used to put together the very recordings audiophiles hear through their $20,000 speaker pairs.

I use a pair of Tannoy pro audio monitors as my surround speakers. They are small two way monitors with a 5" woofer and a tweeter and are rather nice looking. They do a very nice job in my home theater. They would be fine as front main and center speakers too, if you coupled them with a subwoofer.