Record Skip Question

[Squishman]

I've had defective vinyl that looked fine before. Not in original shrink? Or how did a fingerprint get on it?

It wasn't sealed.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes I did. He said VG+/VG+. Visually looks unplayed. I spied a very light fingerprint, but no other marks and zero spindle trails. Not one. Still in shrink. "Looks" like a beautiful record. It is Undercover "Branded" from 1986.

In 1986 was the year that oil prices dropped following the Iran crisis. However there would still have been a lot of suspect vinyl around in 1986.

This is not the seller's fault as often this defect is impossible to spot naked eye. I think you will have to suck this one up.

 

[lovinthehd]

W

In 1986 was the year that oil prices dropped following the Iran crisis. However there would still have been a lot of suspect vinyl around in 1986.

This is not the seller's fault as often this defect is impossible to spot naked eye. I think you will have to suck this one up.

What if the seller knew as it happened to him as well during playback but just decided to pass it along ?

ps that sort of makes me wonder what the seller, if he played it successfully, on what gear?

 

[TLS Guy]

W

What if the seller knew as it happened to him as well during playback but just decided to pass it along ?

ps that sort of makes me wonder what the seller, if he played it successfully, on what gear?

Then the seller is dishonest. I doubt he did listen to it. Guys selling old vinyl usually don't, and do a visual inspection only.

 

[Squishman]

W

What if the seller knew as it happened to him as well during playback but just decided to pass it along ?

ps that sort of makes me wonder what the seller, if he played it successfully, on what gear?

It's possible, but I'm not too worried about it. My fault for already giving fb. I did let him know, I'll see how he replies. If I was the seller, I'd refund him even with the accidental fb.

 

[Squishman]

Then the seller is dishonest. I doubt he did listen to it. Guys selling old vinyl usually don't, and do a visual inspection only.

My thought exactly. That he probably never played it.

 

[lovinthehd]

My thought exactly. That he probably never played it.

Then still somewhat a false report of VG+ if he had no idea.....

 

[Squishman]

Then still somewhat a false report of VG+ if he had no idea.....

It looks VG+. Or better in my opinion. Some folks say if it's opened, VG+ is as high as it goes. I would say M- with the very faint fingerprint. But the slight warp.... ok, maybe VG+ was visually correct.

 

[lovinthehd]

It looks VG+. Or better in my opinion. Some folks say if it's opened, VG+ is as high as it goes. I would say M- with the very faint fingerprint. But the slight warp.... ok, maybe VG+ was visually correct.

Visual means little compared to playback in terms of a rating, tho. We don't play vinyl with our eyes Warps I hate, too. Just pitch it in the waste can but hopefully the seller makes it right for you. While I still have a very good tt/cartridge and a huge vinyl collection, I certainly don't put it on the pedestal you do! Nice for nostalgia and some recordings I don't have digital versions of, tho.

 

[TLS Guy]

Then still somewhat a false report of VG+ if he had no idea.....

You really don't want sellers playing LPs. I certainly don't. It would be rare for a seller to have the quality of LP playing equipment that I have. So even one play on inferior equipment would be a problem. I think the seller did the right thing if he thought there was a possibility of this being an unplayed disc.

You can get a thumbprint on unplayed discs when it was placed in the sleeve at the factory.

 

[lovinthehd]

You really don't want sellers playing LPs. I certainly don't. It would be rare for a seller to have the quality of LP playing equipment that I have. So even one play on inferior equipment would be a problem. I think the seller did the right thing if he thought there was a possibility of this being an unplayed disc.

You can get a thumbprint on unplayed discs when it was placed in the sleeve at the factory.

Never had the fingerprint on a new disc myself. Can't imagine why playability doesn't come into a rating....treating these visually only without return for fault is kind of insane.

 

[TLS Guy]

Never had the fingerprint on a new disc myself. Can't imagine why playability doesn't come into a rating....treating these visually only without return for fault is kind of insane.

I would not want an LP played on some sellers lousy turntable. One play on an inferior turntable is too much. I buy, very, very little used vinyl as you can bet it was played on inferior equipment.

 

[lovinthehd]

I would not want an LP played on some sellers lousy turntable. One play on an inferior turntable is too much. I buy, very, very little used vinyl as you can bet it was played on inferior equipment.

That's why I wouldn't buy a used disc in the first place. But to sell it as in VG condition but has ripples/skips is to my mind dishonest. It's a used record, or was it sold as a new record I bought and never played and just before reselling it I slit open the shrink wrap and put my fat fingers on the disc before just selling it? LOL.

 

[highfigh]

I have been collecting CDs since they came out in the early 80's and have only had one fail so far. Don't get me wrong I also have a pretty decent TT (REGA Planar 3) but to me LPs degrade faster than CDs with use. Also, a lot of LPs produced since 1982 or so are digitally mastered so there is really no benefit to transfer a digital source to LP. That said I do have over 100 LPs and still enjoy listening to them on occasion. JMHO.

Hard to make LPs last as long, considering the stylus tip is in physical contact and it's not lubricated. This is the reason the vinyl turns gray after many plays.

 

[highfigh]

That is completely untrue. I have still got impurities coming to the surface in LPs that are forty years old or more. It is well known that that these impurities have no limit to the time they can come to the surface following manufacture. How they do this remains somewhat of a mystery, but it certainly happens. In fact with my collection I think the older the disc the more likely this is to occur. However the vast majority of the discs doing this are from the Carter Presidency years, when oil was high and the cost or raw materials for LP manufacture were hard to come by and expensive.

Yes, these are plastic, but a soft material like cardboard can't work its way to the surface and the record isn't compressed, in order to cause the impurities to migrate. If something in the mixed PVC undergoes some kind of reaction and expands, I can understand it- maybe the impurities were able to do that. The cardboard I saw was from an LP pressed in the late-'70s and I blame the people who were working in material handling.

The plastic used for LPs is PVC with Carbon Black and it's hard enough that any impurities won't likely move. No limit to the time? That's absurd. Yes, the definition of 'plastic' applies, but these aren't made from softer plastic materials like Polyurethane, Polyethlyene, UMHW, CPVC, etc.

If you can show some of these, I would like to see them.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, these are plastic, but a soft material like cardboard can't work its way to the surface and the record isn't compressed, in order to cause the impurities to migrate. If something in the mixed PVC undergoes some kind of reaction and expands, I can understand it- maybe the impurities were able to do that. The cardboard I saw was from an LP pressed in the late-'70s and I blame the people who were working in material handling.

The plastic used for LPs is PVC with Carbon Black and it's hard enough that any impurities won't likely move. No limit to the time? That's absurd. Yes, the definition of 'plastic' applies, but these aren't made from softer plastic materials like Polyurethane, Polyethlyene, UMHW, CPVC, etc.

If you can show some of these, I would like to see them.

It just happened to me last week. I went to play a two disc set of the Haydn Paris symphonies by the Academy of St. Martin-in - the - Fields. They are Philips pressings made in Holland and dated 1978.

They have always played just fine, until last week, when the first side had two impurities come to the surface. So there are two places were there are faint specs that cause a click and the stylus to get stuck in the groove.

At the time, that Philips plant was European plant most suspect for this problem.

Vinyl does not set hard and stays in that no man's land between hard and solid.

There seem to be two causes of this happening over time. One is foreign material surfacing the other more recently recognized is batches of poorly mixed vinyl.

I can assure you that carefully stored LPs can and do exhibit this problem even long after the pressing date. In this last case 46 years.

 

[highfigh]

It just happened to me last week. I went to play a two disc set of the Haydn Paris symphonies by the Academy of St. Martin-in - the - Fields. They are Philips pressings made in Holland and dated 1978.

They have always played just fine, until last week, when the first side had two impurities come to the surface. So there are two places were there are faint specs that cause a click and the stylus to get stuck in the groove.

At the time, that Philips plant was European plant most suspect for this problem.

Vinyl does not set hard and stays in that no man's land between hard and solid.

There seem to be two causes of this happening over time. One is foreign material surfacing the other more recently recognized is batches of poorly mixed vinyl.

I can assure you that carefully stored LPs can and do exhibit this problem even long after the pressing date. In this last case 46 years.

If it's as plastic as you say, wouldn't storing LPs vertically result in them becoming less circular because of gravity?

As I have bought very few LPs since 1990, I can say that I haven't heard many imperfections, but it would be impossible to say that mine have none because I didn't make notes.

Have you abandoned those LPs? Would you be willing to dig an impurity out, to see if it's a chunk of Carbon Black? My guess is, that material wasn't sent through an extremely fine sieve because they wanted to ship it as quickly as possible or it may have formed clumps while it was sitting. I don't think chemical reactions are too common because we would see evidence on more LPs.

Do you have a microscope? If not, and if I find LPs with this type of impurity, I can check it with mine. I wouldn't play LPs with chunks because I don't want them to chip or flick the stylus tip off of the cantilever.

EDIT-

But this thread isn't about impurities, which you seem to have assumed or inferred- let's start a separate thread for that, if you want.

 

[Squishman]

The guy hasn't replied. I did find another one supposedly VG+ for only $9. I do have a mint cover already, which is nice.

 

[TLS Guy]

If it's as plastic as you say, wouldn't storing LPs vertically result in them becoming less circular because of gravity?

As I have bought very few LPs since 1990, I can say that I haven't heard many imperfections, but it would be impossible to say that mine have none because I didn't make notes.

Have you abandoned those LPs? Would you be willing to dig an impurity out, to see if it's a chunk of Carbon Black? My guess is, that material wasn't sent through an extremely fine sieve because they wanted to ship it as quickly as possible or it may have formed clumps while it was sitting. I don't think chemical reactions are too common because we would see evidence on more LPs.

Do you have a microscope? If not, and if I find LPs with this type of impurity, I can check it with mine. I wouldn't play LPs with chunks because I don't want them to chip or flick the stylus tip off of the cantilever.

EDIT-

But this thread isn't about impurities, which you seem to have assumed or inferred- let's start a separate thread for that, if you want.

I explored the disc today. I can tell you for 100% certain that it is paper that has come to the surface. That has been my experience with this to date. So naughtily they were using reground vinyl in Eindhoven back in the late seventies.

Don't ask me what the physical chemistry of this is, but I know from personal experience foreign material comes to the surface of LPs, many, many years after manufacture.

 

[Squishman]

I explored the disc today. I can tell you for 100% certain that it is paper that has come to the surface. That has been my experience with this to date. So naughtily they were using reground vinyl in Eindhoven back in the late seventies.

Don't ask me what the physical chemistry of this is, but I know from personal experience foreign material comes to the surface of LPs, many, many years after manufacture.

Oh oh. I wish I had another headshell with a secondary cart to try before I play the replacement. But then again, my tt doesn't have a removable headshell. I'll be on pins and needles for about a week. If it plays, I think I'll record it right away since you say these impurities seem to migrate like illegal aliens.