Recommendations for subwoofer driver

S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
I am looking to build a new subwoofer. Something easy to build.
Room is sized about 20" x 15". Crown XLS 1500 or 2002 amps.
Usage is Music and Movies, with Music as higher priority.

I am currently looking at these two drivers.
  1. Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15"
  2. Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15"
Which would be a better option? Or is there something else i should look out for?
Should I go sealed or ported? 2ft x 2ft box or smaller would be great (A bit flexible on this).
 
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NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Chief
What are your goals for low end extension?

Is there a reason you're not considering doing an 18?

A Dayton UM18 in a sealed box would be about a 2 ft cube and is great for movies and music
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
What are your goals for low end extension?
I am not specifically looking for something that digs as low as possible. ~30Hz should be good. If i can do lower, great.

Is there a reason you're not considering doing an 18?
Shipping constraints. I live in a different country. Price comes out too high.
I think 15 inch should suffice. I intend to add second sub later in time.
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
The difference between those drivers is that the HF driver is a bit more linear and so can play more evenly over a wider bandwidth while the HO driver has a bit more displacement and can move a bit more air and so can get a bit louder. It can also handle more current. I think either would be fine. I think if you want more midbass punch, get the HO, but if you want really low distortion performance, get the HF.
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
Sounds like subtle differences. I can live with either. I am thinking I should pick based on what the amps can handle instead.
I have a choice between XLS 1500 and XLS 2002 as I have both.

HF is rated 500W RMS and 1000W Peak,
HO is rated 800W RMS and 1600W Peak.

Here are the ratings of the Crown amps. The XLS 1500 has same specs as 1502 below.

Power.PNG


Which driver-amp combo would be recommended? Would I be able to add a second sub later using just one amp in dual mode?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Sounds like subtle differences. I can live with either. I am thinking I should pick based on what the amps can handle instead.
I have a choice between XLS 1500 and XLS 2002 as I have both.

HF is rated 500W RMS and 1000W Peak,
HO is rated 800W RMS and 1600W Peak.

Here are the ratings of the Crown amps. The XLS 1500 has same specs as 1502 below.

View attachment 33404

Which driver-amp combo would be recommended? Would I be able to add a second sub later using just one amp in dual mode?
If you are going with a single HO driver and you want the most performance out of it, a single 1002 is all you need and it would be overkill for a single HF. If you are going with dual HF subs, a 1502 or 2002 would do the trick. For dual HO drivers, go for a 2002 or 2502.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I am looking to build a new subwoofer. Something easy to build.
Room is sized about 20" x 15". Crown XLS 1500 or 2002 amps.
Usage is Music and Movies, with Music as higher priority.

I am currently looking at these two drivers.
  1. Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15"
  2. Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15"
Which would be a better option? Or is there something else i should look out for?
Should I go sealed or ported? 2ft x 2ft box or smaller would be great (A bit flexible on this).
The HF is a good driver, but vented the enclosure is large.

I did a compact isobarik design for two of the HF units. Parallel the sub is two ohm in series it is 8 ohm. F3 is just below 20 Hz. For one driver the box volume would be doubled.

I also did a sealed design for the HF unit. I will have to go through my records to see if I have modeled the HO. As you can see sealed the F3 is 37 Hz without EQ. Any sealed sub will need Eq.
 
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J

Jeff R.

Audioholic Chief
TLS. Can you try to relink the isobaric design? When I click on it it takes me to the PE website...

Could this work for the ultimate drivers also? Or something similiar...

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
TLS. Can you try to relink the isobaric design? When I click on it it takes me to the PE website...

Could this work for the ultimate drivers also? Or something similiar...

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The ultimax drivers are more suited to a sealed alignment, not ported.
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
If you are going with a single HO driver and you want the most performance out of it, a single 1002 is all you need and it would be overkill for a single HF. If you are going with dual HF subs, a 1502 or 2002 would do the trick. For dual HO drivers, go for a 2002 or 2502.
I think i will go with the HF sealed and pair it with 2002. Would prefer sealed as is easier to build, also prefer a musical one. As i understand it can also go quite low if i go with a larger box. I have power, and flexible with size.

I also did a sealed design for the HF unit. I will have to go through my records to see if I have modeled the HO. As you can see sealed the F3 is 37 Hz without EQ. Any sealed sub will need Eq.
My current subs are about 19 x 19 x 20" (Dual opposed).

As for EQ, I have a Marantz 7005 with Audyssey and a mini DSP.
How low can i get with a sealed sub? What would be a recommended size to go for?
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
TLS. Can you try to relink the isobaric design? When I click on it it takes me to the PE website...

Could this work for the ultimate drivers also? Or something similiar...

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry about that. I have fixed it. I was rushing to run a couple or errands before this fierce storm hit. I ended up driving through it before I got home. Luckily it was only an 8 mile round trip. But with all he idiot drivers who don't know ice is slippery, it was still no fun. So I'm now hunkered down in my family room spinning vinyl by the fire on my lovely two channel rig. I can now watch the storm from my picture window. I have the old Sir David Willcox double album set of Haydn's Creation from Kings College, Cambridge spinning. The best way to enjoy those old performances is vinyl. Still sounds fantastic.

I will doodle some more with the OP's request.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
The HO driver the OP listed is not really suitable. Ported the vent is impossibly long for the size of box. It makes a decent sub with an F3 on the high side at 32 Hz if you build an ABR (Passive radiator) design. But roll of is 36 db per octave. So not really an impressive sub. Sealed the F3 is 58 Hz. But the driver does not have enough excursion xmax to tolerate the required Eq.

As I keep telling everyone who will listen a sealed alignment is the last choice you want to make for a sub. It is complicated and expensive. So you need a massive motor system, gobs of power and have to deal with EQ or you don't have a sub.

I have added a file on the Dayton in a BB4 box with slot vent. It is a good sub with and F3 of 21 Hz. The box is large, but the sensitivity is high for a sub, so it would not take a lot of power to drive it.
 

Attachments

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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I think i will go with the HF sealed and pair it with 2002. Would prefer sealed as is easier to build, also prefer a musical one. As i understand it can also go quite low if i go with a larger box. I have power, and flexible with size.


My current subs are about 19 x 19 x 20" (Dual opposed).

As for EQ, I have a Marantz 7005 with Audyssey and a mini DSP.
How low can i get with a sealed sub? What would be a recommended size to go for?
I would not use either of those drivers in a sealed alignment. They do not have good enough motor systems, also they are pretty low Q drivers.

It is nonsense, complete nonsense, that a sealed sub is more musical then a ported one. If you are going to use two drivers, build that isobarik design. I guarantee that it will be an awesome sub, and very musical.
 
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S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
The HO driver the OP listed is not really suitable. Ported the vent is impossibly long for the size of box. It makes a decent sub with an F3 on the high side at 32 Hz if you build an ABR (Passive radiator) design. But roll of is 36 db per octave. So not really an impressive sub. Sealed the F3 is 58 Hz. But the driver does not have enough excursion xmax to tolerate the required Eq.
You post contradicts everything i have read so far on the HF on PE. HF is being recommended in a sealed box of 3cuFt and above. Anything i missed?

Here is one link,
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
You post contradicts everything i have read so far on the HF on PE. HF is being recommended in a sealed box of 3cuFt and above. Anything i missed?

Here is one link,
The Parts Express forum is not usually a good source of information. Just looking at the numbers, of that driver you would not ball park an f3 in the thirties. But don't forget that a sealed rolls off at 12 db and not 24 db per octave like a ported box.

The problem with the driver is that it requires such a large cabinet ported. However the point if my design is that I get it into a realistically sized box by making it an isobaric design. This gets you an f3 just a little south of 20 Hz and a really impressive sub. I have found that you can be extremely confident of the modelling of a sub. Just look at the models I sent you. I stand by them 100%.
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
The Parts Express forum is not usually a good source of information. Just looking at the numbers, of that driver you would not ball park an f3 in the thirties. But don't forget that a sealed rolls off at 12 db and not 24 db per octave like a ported box.

The problem with the driver is that it requires such a large cabinet ported. However the point if my design is that I get it into a realistically sized box by making it an isobaric design. This gets you an f3 just a little south of 20 Hz and a really impressive sub. I have found that you can be extremely confident of the modelling of a sub. Just look at the models I sent you. I stand by them 100%.
Fair enough. Considering that i have got really good suggestions from you earlier when I was shopping for my first system, and never regretted, ill certainly consider your suggestion.
However box size has got me thinking. Also i am not sure if it is a good idea for my sub to play that low. I do not have a dedicated HT room, and way too many things to rattle :eek::eek:


I ran into some luck today, I have a friend who is traveling from US to India and can carry 2 of these drivers. So I will be shipping from PE. Can I get a better price than the ones at PE?
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Fair enough. Considering that i have got really good suggestions from you earlier when I was shopping for my first system, and never regretted, ill certainly consider your suggestion.
However box size has got me thinking. Also i am not sure if it is a good idea for my sub to play that low. I do not have a dedicated HT room, and way too many things to rattle :eek::eek:


I ran into some luck today, I have a friend who is traveling from US to India and can carry 2 of these drivers. So I will be shipping from PE. Can I get a better price than the ones at PE?
If you build it properly, just remember the isobaric tunnel between the drivers, the bracing and volume of the port, need to be added to the box volume, Vb to get the total volume Vt.
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
The HF is a good driver, but vented the enclosure is large.
The Vented box requires about 10cuFt box. This is way too big.

I also did a sealed design for the HF unit. I will have to go through my records to see if I have modeled the HO. As you can see sealed the F3 is 37 Hz without EQ. Any sealed sub will need Eq.
Any specific reason not to go with sealed with this driver?
Is it only the EQ factor? Or is there something else that is an issue?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
The Vented box requires about 10cuFt box. This is way too big.


Any specific reason not to go with sealed with this driver?
Is it only the EQ factor? Or is there something else that is an issue?
First off a sealed solution is never really optimal. A speaker cone is a terrible coupler to the air. Speakers really do benefit from an acoustic transformer. So at low frequencies a loudspeaker driver becomes very inefficient. So you end up needing a driver with a very robust motor system and lots of xmax, that means an expensive suspension. Then you need lots of power to provide the added EQ and therefore a very robust motor system. Remember the boost requires is 12 db per octave below F3 and that means a lot of extra power. That driver has far from optimal T/S parameters to make it a good sealed sub driver.
 

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