reciever converting video signal

N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
Need a little help

Just got a new mitsubishi HC5500 projector. Blu ray discs look great on it. No problem there. However my standard dvd’s looks worse than ever. Here’s the setup:

Blu ray player (playing a sd dvd), connected via HDMI to an Onkyo TX-SR605. Then I have an HDMI out going to the projector. SD DVD image looks very grainy

My old setup was playing the same SD DVD in the same blu ray player with component cables (Y, BR, BP) thru a M1 adapter being connected directly into an Infocus X2 projector for the video– the image was fine

I’m guessing this has to do with how the Onkyo receiver is “changing” the image but I don’t know what to look for.

Anyone have any ideas. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The first thing to do is to pull the receiver out of the equation. Just hook up the BD player to the projector directly.

If I recall, the InFocus used Faroudja processing for 480i/480p video signals which likely gave you a bit more quality when the image was upconverted to fit.

The Mits. likely doesn't have solid upconverting, and if you don't have one of the better Blu-ray players, you may not have the best upconversion out of that either.

You will want to check the make & model of your Blu-ray player to see if that may be the issue.

Keep in mind, you may actually be seeing a better quality DVD, but the digital connection is making the flaws more obvious vs. the component video connection which delivered 480p video (at best) via analog, and could introduce softening, which in turn made the image look better overall.
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
The first thing to do is to pull the receiver out of the equation. Just hook up the BD player to the projector directly.

If I recall, the InFocus used Faroudja processing for 480i/480p video signals which likely gave you a bit more quality when the image was upconverted to fit.

The Mits. likely doesn't have solid upconverting, and if you don't have one of the better Blu-ray players, you may not have the best upconversion out of that either.

You will want to check the make & model of your Blu-ray player to see if that may be the issue.

Keep in mind, you may actually be seeing a better quality DVD, but the digital connection is making the flaws more obvious vs. the component video connection which delivered 480p video (at best) via analog, and could introduce softening, which in turn made the image look better overall.

Interesting. Thank you for the info. The Blu- ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BD30K

On a semi related note. i could still use my old componenet cables for the video to the projector but would i still get a good 1080p image - or do i need the hdmi to get that quality picture

i ask because this may fix the whole issue
 
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A

alexsound

Audioholic
Need a little help

Just got a new mitsubishi HC5500 projector. Blu ray discs look great on it. No problem there. However my standard dvd’s looks worse than ever. Here’s the setup:

Blu ray player (playing a sd dvd), connected via HDMI to an Onkyo TX-SR605. Then I have an HDMI out going to the projector. SD DVD image looks very grainy

My old setup was playing the same SD DVD in the same blu ray player with component cables (Y, BR, BP) thru a M1 adapter being connected directly into an Infocus X2 projector for the video– the image was fine

I’m guessing this has to do with how the Onkyo receiver is “changing” the image but I don’t know what to look for.

Anyone have any ideas. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

check you receiver's owner's manual to see how to "bypass" the receiver's video processing and have the signal from your BD player as a "pass through" only via HDMI.
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
check you receiver's owner's manual to see how to "bypass" the receiver's video processing and have the signal from your BD player as a "pass through" only via HDMI.
Aha - that is something else i was curious about. i will check the manual tonight when i get home. I may post again tonight if I still have an issue. Thank you guys for your help.
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
okay - i'm currently looking at my manual, what section should i look at for "video pass through"? I'm guessing the advanced section but cant find it. Does it go by another saying?
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
i dont think its the hook up

I also tried the same disc in my PS3 going straight to my 47' phillips 1080p LCD vis hdmi and it kinda looked the same

I guess Blu ray has shown me the lack of detail in sd dvd oh well :( I never really noticed it before though - :(
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
If I recall, the InFocus used Faroudja processing for 480i/480p video signals which likely gave you a bit more quality when the image was upconverted to fit.

The Mits. likely doesn't have solid upconverting, and if you don't have one of the better Blu-ray players, you may not have the best upconversion out of that either.

QUOTE]

Hey BMXTRIX, I am curious about what you said above. I thought the Mitz would be a step up in clarity, not just for Blu rays, but for standard dvds as well. I am not too concerned with upconverting the sd dvd quality, I would just like to have it as nice as it looked on the Infocus X2. It is possible that will never happen? I still dont know the differences between Faroudja's and things like that.

also, i asked this question before. Is there a distinct difference in image resolution (quality) using component vs hdmi when going to and from two 1080P sources?

thank you
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
If I recall, the InFocus used Faroudja processing for 480i/480p video signals which likely gave you a bit more quality when the image was upconverted to fit.

The Mits. likely doesn't have solid upconverting, and if you don't have one of the better Blu-ray players, you may not have the best upconversion out of that either.
Hey BMXTRIX, I am curious about what you said above. I thought the Mitz would be a step up in clarity, not just for Blu rays, but for standard dvds as well. I am not too concerned with upconverting the sd dvd quality, I would just like to have it as nice as it looked on the Infocus X2. It is possible that will never happen? I still dont know the differences between Faroudja's and things like that.

also, i asked this question before. Is there a distinct difference in image resolution (quality) using component vs hdmi when going to and from two 1080P sources?

thank you
I don't know anything about the specific models of projectors you have (which is why I did not respond earlier), but it seems you could use some general information.

With all TVs and monitors, for them to display a picture, the format of the signal must be converted to the native format of the display (unless it is already in the native format). This can be done in the TV/monitor, or in the source, or in a video processor in between. How well the conversion is done will very significantly affect picture quality. Thus, regular DVDs might actually look worse on a new 1080p TV than they did on a 480i or 480p TV, if the conversion to 1080p is poorly done. Also, the difference between a converted picture and a native 1080p will be significant (unless one is looking at it from far away), so it may make one less satisfied with a 480 source than one was previously.

Now, to get DVDs to look their best, if your current projector is not doing a good enough job with the conversion, you can buy an expensive video processor, or a receiver with a great one built in (which will be expensive), or you can buy a better DVD player, which, ironically, might be the more cost effective solution. The Oppo DV-983H is a great DVD player with a superb upconverter, and costs about $400:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cd-dvd-player-product-reviews/dvd-players/oppo-digital-dv-983h-dvd-player---a-secrets-dvd-benchmark-review.html

But don't expect miracles: Nothing will make a DVD look as good as a decently mastered Blu-Ray disc.

But don't run out and buy anything until you try connecting your player directly to the set, etc.

From rereading an earlier post of yours, I see you have the PS3. If you have the latest firmware, it is supposed to be pretty good at upconversion, though I have not personally seen it in action. So you might not be able to get a significant improvement with a new player or processor.

As for HDMI versus component, there shouldn't be any visible difference between them, but sometimes things don't work as they should. In most cases, I would advise that you use HDMI whenever possible. Not only do you avoid unnecessary conversion to analog, you also avoid the possibility that your source is some copy protected thing that will refuse to output via component at full resolution (which can make a significant difference in quality).
 
mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
Your PJ has the same processor as mine, which is the Reon-VX which is a very capable chip. The problem (or potential problem) is that each chip can be very differently implemented. I have yet to see any reviews that measure the strength of the Mits/Reon-VX implementation, but it shouldn't hurt the signal I would think.

I really dislike the video "processing" of almost all AVRs. I wish that they would put the money into better components/cooling/etc rather than a chip that almost no one will use.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Your PJ has the same processor as mine, which is the Reon-VX which is a very capable chip. The problem (or potential problem) is that each chip can be very differently implemented. I have yet to see any reviews that measure the strength of the Mits/Reon-VX implementation, but it shouldn't hurt the signal I would think.

I really dislike the video "processing" of almost all AVRs. I wish that they would put the money into better components/cooling/etc rather than a chip that almost no one will use.
What I find most annoying is paying for processors in everything; ones' source, one's receiver, and one's TV. It would be much better to have a great one instead of three. The same goes for buying D/A converters, both for audio and video. I use the HDMI output on my newest DVD player for both audio and video; the converter chips and analog circuitry built into it are just wasted in my case.
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
i know on my blu ray player, i can set the resolution to 480 i, 480p, 720 and 1080. For sd dvd would it make sense to make that change at the bd player point. And if so, which setting would you suggest?

I guess the question is - why do that make the option of changing resolutions available in the first place in a hi def player?
 
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mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
i know on my blu ray player, i can set the resolution to 480 i, 480p, 720 and 1080. For sd dvd would it make sense to make that change at the bd player point. And if so, which setting would you suggest?
What I did was try it at 1080p, which has the BRP do the scaling/de-interlacing, and then try it again set to 480i (dvd native) and see which you like better. If you set it to 480i, that should force the PJ to use it's Reon-VX processor. That is assuming your silly AVR doesn't get in the way. :D
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
What I did was try it at 1080p, which has the BRP do the scaling/de-interlacing, and then try it again set to 480i (dvd native) and see which you like better. If you set it to 480i, that should force the PJ to use it's Reon-VX processor. That is assuming your silly AVR doesn't get in the way. :D
This is absolutely right. You should try having each of your different processors upconvert, and use the one you like best. If you have one built into the player, one in the receiver, and one in the TV, you should try all three (you do this by setting everything in the chain prior to the one you want doing the conversion to just pass the signal and not upconvert). You may find with different sources that different converters are best, particularly if one of your sources has a great converter and another has a poor one. But you may also find that one of the converters to be better in some ways, and worse in others, in which case you still pick the one you like best overall for a particular source.
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
What I did was try it at 1080p, which has the BRP do the scaling/de-interlacing, and then try it again set to 480i (dvd native) and see which you like better. If you set it to 480i, that should force the PJ to use it's Reon-VX processor. That is assuming your silly AVR doesn't get in the way. :D
Okay - thats awesome info - exactly what i needed to hear - makes more sense to me know. One more thing though about "That is assuming your silly AVR doesn't get in the way". - Is there a generally phrased setting in the AVR that I need to look at to see if it indeed is "getting in the way"? I can set the HDMI setting to yes or no, but only yes works, i do not get a signal with No. I looked in the manual but just dont see it anywhere.

I have an Onkyo 605
 
N

Needbass

Junior Audioholic
This is absolutely right. You should try having each of your different processors upconvert, and use the one you like best. If you have one built into the player, one in the receiver, and one in the TV, you should try all three (you do this by setting everything in the chain prior to the one you want doing the conversion to just pass the signal and not upconvert). You may find with different sources that different converters are best, particularly if one of your sources has a great converter and another has a poor one. But you may also find that one of the converters to be better in some ways, and worse in others, in which case you still pick the one you like best overall for a particular source.
sorry for all the questiopns and thank you for all of your help. What you said above, I want to make sure i have this clear. If i set my 1080p blu player to 1080, will the reciever and projector automatically know that they dont need to do the conversion? Or do I usually have to "turn off" stuff on them? same goes for the two other conversion scenarios.
 
mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
sorry for all the questiopns and thank you for all of your help. What you said above, I want to make sure i have this clear. If i set my 1080p blu player to 1080, will the reciever and projector automatically know that they dont need to do the conversion? Or do I usually have to "turn off" stuff on them? same goes for the two other conversion scenarios.
You can just physically bypass the receiver for your video connection, that'll definitely take it out of the way.

I'm not familiar with the Onkyo's, but I would read over the video section of your user's manual and look for a setting called "bypass" or something equivalent.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
sorry for all the questiopns and thank you for all of your help. What you said above, I want to make sure i have this clear. If i set my 1080p blu player to 1080, will the reciever and projector automatically know that they dont need to do the conversion? Or do I usually have to "turn off" stuff on them? same goes for the two other conversion scenarios.
If the player is set to output everything at 1080p, then if it works properly, it will output everything at 1080p. So everything after that will "see" it as a 1080p signal, and will not upconvert it to 1080p, because it already is 1080p.

Now, of course, if you have a receiver that can convert between HD formats from HDMI inputs, you could have the receiver set to convert everything to 720p (or whatever), and then it would down-convert the signal to 720p, and if you have a 1080p TV, it would then upconvert the 720p signal it gets from the receiver to 1080p. This would degrade the picture. But if everything is set to upconvert everything to 1080p, then the first thing will upconvert it to 1080p, and everything else will "see" it as a 1080p signal and will not. This is why I said previously, "If you have one [an upconverter] built into the player, one in the receiver, and one in the TV, you should try all three (you do this by setting everything in the chain prior to the one you want doing the conversion to just pass the signal and not upconvert)." So, if you have a player, receiver, and TV that can all upconvert, first try setting everything to upconvert to whatever the native format of your TV is, which means that you will see what the player's upconverter looks like. Next, set the player to output whatever is on the disc. This will give you what your receiver's upconverter looks like. Next (without changing any settings on the source; i.e., leave it set to output whatever is on the disc), set your receiver to output whatever signal it receives. This will give you what the TV's converter does. Decide which of the three you liked best, and set things for that. Do this with each source, because some sources have better upconverters than others, and because some upconverters are better with some sources than others.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Okay - thats awesome info - exactly what i needed to hear - makes more sense to me know. One more thing though about "That is assuming your silly AVR doesn't get in the way". - Is there a generally phrased setting in the AVR that I need to look at to see if it indeed is "getting in the way"? I can set the HDMI setting to yes or no, but only yes works, i do not get a signal with No. I looked in the manual but just dont see it anywhere.

I have an Onkyo 605
The comment "assuming that your silly AVR doesn't get in the way" is probably a reference to the fact that some AVRs (Audio-Video Receivers) are silly and won't let you turn off video processing. If you bought one of those, you will need to bypass it by connecting your source directly to your TV if you want to see what the picture looks like without video processing in the receiver. Consult your manual for more on this.

I personally would never buy a receiver that does not allow for its silly processing to be shut off, or if I did make such a mistake, I would return it post-haste. No processor is perfect, and they are always making improvements, so it may be that even if the receiver had state of the art processing (which is unlikely unless it is both very high end and a very new model), it will likely not be state of the art for long, and one's new TV or new source purchased in the not too distant future might be better at it.
 
mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
Looks like you can perform HDMI passthrough by changing the HDMI Monitor Setting to "No". This will disable On screen display and allow HDMI to pass unmolested. Page 25 of the Onkyo 605 User manual.

Yes, I am bored.
 

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