Receiver War!!!

[Devastateu]

Guys,

I have been reading over some of the treads here and I am a little confused about something. What is the differenance between receivers??? I mean, as far as I know, most DVDs don't produce 6.1 and for that matter 7.1 sound; so what's the big deal about the receiver??? If I buy a 7.1 receiver does that mean it's better than my 5.1? Another thing; please explain what is the big differenance between receiver makers. I know that there has to be a differeance, but I don't know it. I had no idea that home theater was so freakin complex. Any advise would greatly help.

Cellus
P.S. Please forgive if these are very stupid questions, but I really don't know and I am in need of help.

 

[dloweman]

A lot of stuff to cover here, but i will give you a little info. In terms of differences b/w companies, it is just like cars, the sunfire and cavalier are very similar, but the differences are cosmetics, and the some of the parts are different. From these changes the sound, power supply....etc, is slightly different b/w receivers. That is why when it comes down to it, the choice between receivers is personal preferance, the reason to come to this site is to mainly find out if you should avoid a certain receiver due to problems that they are having.
In terms or 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, some manufacturers still make 5.1 and they are a lot better than some of other 7.1 setups. What they are doing is trying to future proof for when there is the release of dvds in 7.1 setups. Also, when you go from a 6.1 to a 7.1 and move on up the line in the same manufacturer, then you are adding better components and dac's to make a better sounding receiver as well as more channels.
hope this helps a bit, and hopefully someone will chip in with more info.

 

[Ohmage]

5.1 is here to stay

Guys,

I have been reading over some of the treads here and I am a little confused about something. What is the differenance between receivers??? I mean, as far as I know, most DVDs don't produce 6.1 and for that matter 7.1 sound; so what's the big deal about the receiver??? If I buy a 7.1 receiver does that mean it's better than my 5.1? Another thing; please explain what is the big differenance between receiver makers. I know that there has to be a differeance, but I don't know it. I had no idea that home theater was so freakin complex. Any advise would greatly help.

Cellus
P.S. Please forgive if these are very stupid questions, but I really don't know and I am in need of help.

Consider this: the average household has difficulty pulling wires and accomodating the space for a 5.1 setup, let alone a 7.1 system. And the additional 2 speakers does not represent a significant sonic improvement, experience wise, over a 5.1 setup. Also, the additional sonic benefits from the 2 extra channels are not true discrete material encoded on existing DVD's (these do not currently exist). They are just offsprings of digital surround processing from the receiver.

I think current 7.1 receivers are more of a marketing hype to generate sales more than anything, and they may not be future-proof at all, if your intention is to have a true 7.1 setup. Here is a scenario: Dolby Laboratories creates a truly discrete 7.1 surround mode, and calls it "Lucky 7.1 True Surround". Well, you get the picture, there are currently no 7.1 receivers that can decode "Lucky 7.1 True Surround". Its time to get rid of the old one, and buy a new one.

A couple of small advantages of a 7.1 receiver these days are: you could use the last 2 channels to bi-amp your front speakers (and stay with a 5.1 setup); and some receivers allow you to use the last 2 channels in a multizone setup. If you are new to home theatre, 5.1 should do you well.


cheers,

Ohmage.

 

[sjdgpt]

please explain what is the big differenance between receiver makers. I know that there has to be a differeance

The kinda of smart aleck answer..... not a lot.

Seriously, as much as the manufacturer would like you/me to believe, a Denon $1000 receiver is pretty much like a $1000 Yamaha receiver. A few tweaks here and there, some minor features that could make a difference..... if you need that feature.

Guys,

I mean, as far as I know, most DVDs don't produce 6.1 and for that matter 7.1 sound; so what's the big deal about the receiver??? If I buy a 7.1 receiver does that mean it's better than my 5.1?

True, there is no 7.1 at the present. Doesn't mean that such discs wont be produced in the future.

No, a 7.1 AVR is not inheritantly better than a 5.1 AVR. But you will find the greatest feature selection, greatest noise reduction etc on the middle of the road and flagship models from each manufacturer, and since the internal power supply has been upgraded to reduce noise and increase dynamic power, it is easiest enough to add the 2 additional channels at very little additional cost to the manufacturer. In addition, for the flagship and near flagship models it is often desirable to power multi zones, hence the upgraded internal power supply (and two extra channels) can be diverted to power those zones. So in a way, the 7.1 AVR can be, and often is, a better AVR than the 5.1 AVR.

Do you NEED a 7.1 AVR? Nope. Is any given manufacturers 5.1 AVR a bad unit? Nope. Will you enjoy a 5.1 AVR? You bet.

 

[just_visiting]

I would buy a receiver based on what in's and out's you need to hook up your componets.

DVD player, HDTV receiver, VCR, MD, DVD recorder, CD player, computer, etc...

 

[wojman]

Yamaha 3000 vs Yamaha 2400/2500

This being said with 7.1 vs. 5.1, what is a better reciever to have, the Yamaha RX-V3000 or the Rx-v2400? I have an opportunity to pick both up at a reasonable price, but am confused with which one to go with. Am I buying old technology with the 3000 which is a few years older? I know the 2400 can do 7.1, but what dvds are out there? Also, is it possible to "fake" 7.1 through Yamahas DSP modes? I know the 3000 has front effects which I imagine has a DSP mode so I was just wondering which reciever is the one to go with, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jfconrow]

The one thing that I like about 6.1 and 7.1 is the side speakers. They add alot to the surround effect. 5.1 does not do this unless you place your speakers really wide from your video.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

The one thing that I like about 6.1 and 7.1 is the side speakers. They add alot to the surround effect. 5.1 does not do this unless you place your speakers really wide from your video.

I think you may have your surround system set-up incorrectly. The fourth and fifth channel are the "side" speakers. Only the sixth speaker (six and seven if you're matrixing with a 7.1 set-up) is supposed to be behind the listener.


Anyway, other differences in receivers include:
*Total power output
*Number of digital or analog inputs
*ability to use external amps
*DSP's (or lack thereof)
*user friendlyness of remote
*automatic speaker calibration
*number of channels amplified
*build quality

et cetera, et cetera

 

[howie85]

I was really excited to upgrade to 7.1 but until I got the setup right I was not too impressed. Needless to say it was still better than 5.1 even on a bad day.

 

[rgriffin25]

I think current 7.1 receivers are more of a marketing hype to generate sales more than anything, and they may not be future-proof at all, if your intention is to have a true 7.1 setup.

I find it funny to hear you say "7.1 is marketing hype". Did you have a home theater when DPL was the Standard? I don't think you realize how good we have it now days. I personally like having a 7.1 HT. I don't care if it is matrixed or DTS-ES 6.1 it just seems to add more depth to the movie soundtrack.

A couple of small advantages of a 7.1 receiver these days are: you could use the last 2 channels to bi-amp your front speakers (and stay with a 5.1 setup); and some receivers allow you to use the last 2 channels in a multizone setup. If you are new to home theatre, 5.1 should do you well.

Here is an advantage you failed to mention, 7.1 adds speakers to the back of your HT to help recreate a more realistic sound environment. After watching movies with my 7.1 set-up I will never go back to 5.1.

 

[Mega2000]

so in a 7.1 setup the surround left and right shouldn't be behind? I have the beack right and left even with my fronts but above my head around 3 feet behind me and I have my surr. LT & RT the same distance behind me but a good amount farther apart. back speakers are about 6ft apart and my surrounds are about another 6 feet outside them.... is this thr wrong setup, should I have these speakers mounted on the side wall alighed with the couch?

well, the way I have it set up sound pretty good, if i can get it even better that would be AWESOME!!!

 

[shokhead]

I find it funny to hear you say "7.1 is marketing hype". Did you have a home theater when DPL was the Standard? I don't think you realize how good we have it now days. I personally like having a 7.1 HT. I don't care if it is matrixed or DTS-ES 6.1 it just seems to add more depth to the movie soundtrack.



Here is an advantage you failed to mention, 7.1 adds speakers to the back of your HT to help recreate a more realistic sound environment. After watching movies with my 7.1 set-up I will never go back to 5.1.

Which DVD did you watch that was recorded in 7.1?

 

[MDS]

so in a 7.1 setup the surround left and right shouldn't be behind? I have the beack right and left even with my fronts but above my head around 3 feet behind me and I have my surr. LT & RT the same distance behind me but a good amount farther apart. back speakers are about 6ft apart and my surrounds are about another 6 feet outside them.... is this thr wrong setup, should I have these speakers mounted on the side wall alighed with the couch?

In a 7.1 setup, the "side surrounds" (channel 4 and 5) should be placed directly to your left and right sides and the "rear surrounds" (channel 6 and 7) should be placed behind you.

If due to room layout you end up with the sides slightly in front of or behind you that is ok, but the rears should be well behind you and definitely not on the same plane as the side surrounds.

The Dolby site has many diagrams for recommended layouts.

 

[Mega2000]

In a 7.1 setup, the "side surrounds" (channel 4 and 5) should be placed directly to your left and right sides and the "rear surrounds" (channel 6 and 7) should be placed behind you.

If due to room layout you end up with the sides slightly in front of or behind you that is ok, but the rears should be well behind you and definitely not on the same plane as the side surrounds.

The Dolby site has many diagrams for recommended layouts.

thanks...

it looks like i have to rig something up to be ablwe to move the rears back at least a few feet.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Yeah, they really should have called them "flanking speakers".

Now just try and explain the 'height' channel (a seldom used matrixed speaker that can be ceiling mounted directly above the listener, or high up on the front wall and angled downwards) to people in Best Buy

 

[rgriffin25]

Which DVD did you watch that was recorded in 7.1?

I mentioned Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES. I didn't say I watched a 7.1 encoded movie.

 

[wojman]

Hey Shockhead

I see you have the Sony NC555es dvd changer, what is your opinion of it? I have a Yamaha DVD-C920 and am considering buying the Sony. Is the switch worth it? A local store is tying to get rid of it for $200 bucks.

 

[nj_explorer]

Future proof-ability

I'm new to this but I build electronics products for a living. I think Ohmage makes a really good point about the reality of 7.1 systems providing future proofing. I was recently reading about the various formats (of course after I bought my 7.1 receiver) and I came to the same conclusion. In short, if I understood correctly, the 7.1 support in many of the current receivers simply, algorithmically, distribute audio encoded into fewer channels to more speakers. I'm not dusputing whether or not is sounds better but when a real 7.1 channel system hits the streets I don't think the current algorithms will know what to do with it. Or perhaps it will work in some less desirable mode. Maybe someone with more knowledge can correct me.

Real future proofing is possible only with receivers that allow you to download and install software upgrades. In that case new DSP algorithms can be installed to accomodate new formats. Even in that case there might be some issues with hardware design but I don't know what that would be. I wish more companies would allow for software upgrades. It seems to be limited to higher end (> $1000) systems. The systems I build sell for (ball park) $200 and the customers expect this.

 

[shokhead]

I see you have the Sony NC555es dvd changer, what is your opinion of it? I have a Yamaha DVD-C920 and am considering buying the Sony. Is the switch worth it? A local store is tying to get rid of it for $200 bucks.

Pretty darn nice.For 200 bucks,go now. Pretty good video and killer audio. Its as good or better then the Yamaha C750 i had.


Oh,Dig EX and DTS-ES,i didnt see that. Thats different,fake 6.1 and 7.1.