real world differences between speakers

[jliedeka]

I agree with spending more on the front channels than surrounds. I was leaning that way already. I thought about upgrading my satellites and center while keeping the 4 Klipsch speakers I have as surrounds.

A lot of my classical SACDs are mixed in 2.1 or 3.1 so the other speakers don't come in to play. It makes sense to spend more money on the speakers that have more sound coming out of them.

 

[fmw]

This part is a tad off. Forty decibels is not that loud. If what you where saying was correct one tenth of a watt would be extremely loud with most speakers. 40 decibels is probably the level of SPL reached when I type on my keyboard.

Thanks for that. I'm wrong. I was imagining a 1 in front of the numbers. sorry. I didn't mean to mislead. Yes 100 db is loud. It is the equivalent of the sound involved in operating a jackhammer. 140 db is deafeningly loud.

 

[Seth=L]

140 db is deafeningly loud.

More than enough to drive someone out of a room.

 

[irvin]

Sometimes I think we all wonder what if I had this or that set of speakers. I have Athena speakers with a yamaha receiver. My listening room is about same size of most demo rooms at my local dealers. After auditoning movies with klipsch,paradigm,def tech,mirage Etc.. with denon,yamaha,pioneer etc. In my opinion they all sound the same especially with movie demos. After leaving the dealer I feel like I have new appreciation for my setup. I think with movies there is minimal differences between speakers and receivers.

 

[Seth=L]

Sometimes I think we all wonder what if I had this or that set of speakers. I have Athena speakers with a yamaha receiver. My listening room is about same size of most demo rooms at my local dealers. After auditoning movies with klipsch,paradigm,def tech,mirage Etc.. with denon,yamaha,pioneer etc. In my opinion they all sound the same especially with movie demos. After leaving the dealer I feel like I have new appreciation for my setup. I think with movies there is minimal differences between speakers and receivers.

Overall dynamic capability makes a difference. The fact that a large part of the focus of a movie is the screen, that means you are probably paying less attention to what the speakers are doing. But I do agree, you could have an HT with Cerwin Vega speakers and it would probably sound great for movies, but most audio savy people don't care for Cerwin Vega for quality sound reproduction with music.

 

[jostenmeat]

Overall dynamic capability makes a difference. The fact that a large part of the focus of a movie is the screen, that means you are probably paying less attention to what the speakers are doing. But I do agree, you could have an HT with Cerwin Vega speakers and it would probably sound great for movies, but most audio savy people don't care for Cerwin Vega for quality sound reproduction with music.

I agree with Seth's viewpoint.

For HT only, my only concerns: Center channel does not distort dialogue or is sibilant in nature. (I can care less if the other speakers were for HT).

Then, for all the speakers: 1. dynamics (like Seth) 2. extension 3. dispersion

Otoh, for music, I would actually care much more for transparency, linearity, with particular attention to the abilities firstly in the mid-range, then bass, mid-bass and trebles as well, and how well the speaker can coherently "put it all together" (based on driver selections matched with x-over etc perhaps). For HT only, "boom and sizzle" just might be totally adequate for me...

For HT only, I would need no better than PSB Images, for the money, they crank (dynamics), extend (quite well), and disperse (perhaps only decently/average... well, they do have a decent soundstage)... good with vocals too, but tweeters can exhibit unforgiving nature with a poor movie track (I think of "The Proposition")...

 

[WmAx]

I must agree with the last two posters. I have absurd standards for music reproduction quality. But for movies and television, I am happy with much lower quality sound reproduction basically limited to the parameters that the last poster laid out.

-Chris

 

[Seth=L]

I must agree with the last two posters. I have absurd standards for music reproduction quality. But for movies and television, I am happy with much lower quality sound reproduction basically limited to the parameters that the last poster laid out.

-Chris

I JUST WANT IT TO BE LOUD!

 

[jostenmeat]

I JUST WANT IT TO BE LOUD!

WHAT DID YOU SAY?

I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

 

[jostenmeat]

I JUST WANT IT TO BE LOUD!

hahahaha

 

[Seth=L]

i Said I Want It Loud!

 

[3db]

PSB Image series are a very revealing speaker

I agree with Seth's viewpoint.

For HT only, my only concerns: Center channel does not distort dialogue or is sibilant in nature. (I can care less if the other speakers were for HT).

Then, for all the speakers: 1. dynamics (like Seth) 2. extension 3. dispersion

Otoh, for music, I would actually care much more for transparency, linearity, with particular attention to the abilities firstly in the mid-range, then bass, mid-bass and trebles as well, and how well the speaker can coherently "put it all together" (based on driver selections matched with x-over etc perhaps). For HT only, "boom and sizzle" just might be totally adequate for me...

For HT only, I would need no better than PSB Images, for the money, they crank (dynamics), extend (quite well), and disperse (perhaps only decently/average... well, they do have a decent soundstage)... good with vocals too, but tweeters can exhibit unforgiving nature with a poor movie track (I think of "The Proposition")...

and if the material they have been fed is poorly recorded, your gonna get garbage out. But oh la la!! Give them a good quailty recording and prepare yourself for a mind blowing eargasm!! Thats why I love them so much.
They don't add nor color the music. They play it how it is. They are very adept in reproducing 2 channel music and I recommend them highly.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

It is certainly true that the ability to sound good when played loud is one of the characteristics of better speakers, but I hardly think it is the only thing they have going for them.

 

[garbage pale kid]

i think thats the way they have the listening rooms they make everything sound good

 

[EddieG]

How much better is an $8-900/pair speaker than a $400/pair speaker? Those would be the price points I'm considering.

I read in a magazine the answer to your question. What happens is people like us go into a store and listen to the less expensive speakers and think "that sounds great". The you listen to speakers that cost $200 more and think "Hey! these sounds a little better". But the thing is your are comparing them to each other! If you had the less expensive ones in your house, would you think to yourself "i should have gotten the other ones"?

I'm going next week to listen to Mordaunt-Short MS914 for $349 and the Wharfedale Crystal 30 that are on sale for $119. It will be interesting for me to see if I can tell much of a difference, especially a difference worth $230 that I could put towards a good sub.

I have not read all the messages in this thread so I am curious what others have said about what the difference is from $400 to $800 speakers. But again, it comes down to how it sounds to YOU, and NOT to compare the speakers to each other.

Eddie

 

[Slayermoonlight]

Difference between speakers? Hmmm..... Does "looks" count?

I'm going next week to listen to Mordaunt-Short MS914 for $349 and the Wharfedale Crystal 30 that are on sale for $119. It will be interesting for me to see if I can tell much of a difference, especially a difference worth $230 that I could put towards a good sub.

I have not read all the messages in this thread so I am curious what others have said about what the difference is from $400 to $800 speakers. But again, it comes down to how it sounds to YOU, and NOT to compare the speakers to each other.

Eddie

How about Diamond 8 or Diamond 9 babes of Wharfedale? They're prettier than Crystals Good price too.

 

[Haoleb]

I havent read most of the posts in this thread but I can tell you with zero hesitation that you dont need to push speakers to hear a difference. I have my old JBL speakers hooked up right now just to make sure they work fine because I am selling them and the differences between them and my Axioms is immediatly noticable.

Just right off the bat I can tell you the bass is very noticeably boomier, hollow and doesnt go as deep. Midrange is muddled and somewhat nasaly. the top end is not nearly as detailed or clean. Nor do the speakers sound smooth and natural as a whole. Overall they are rubbish.

(And no i didnt say that in my craigslist ad.. lol)

 

[zumbo]

One must consider the room. Specs and demos mean nothing if you have a room two or three times the demo room. This is also a determining factor for amplification.
I don't worry much about a speakers sensitivity. If I like the SQ, I can certainly find a way to get them the power they need. A higher-end, more expensive speaker usually has the ability to handle as much power as you can throw at it.
Many say that all that extra power is not needed, and it doesn't make a difference at normal levels. It should be easy to understand that any amplifier distorts more as you turn up the volume. So, at normal levels, most high-power amps will be cleaner. A high-power amp is also better for your speakers. The cleaner you can keep the signal, the better it is on the speakers. While human hearing can pick-up some differences, the speakers hear it all.
Now, what is a normal level? This is where it gets tricky. I believe if a person is taking the time to be involved in an audio forum, they are a little above normal when it comes to audio. So, I'm pretty sure most of us like to crank it a good bit.
About the speakers. IMO, there is a huge difference between a speaker costing $400, and the other costing $800. I believe I read in this thread that $1000-$1500 retail each is a pretty good cut-off point. I agree, and say $800 to $1500 is a good range to demo in a variety of brands. This seems to be the sweet spot. As far as which brand, that is all up to the end user. IMO, B&W 800 series are a good reference.

 

[jliedeka]

I'm going on the theory that amps aren't as critical as speakers. I mean amps in the mid-fi or better category. That means I'll be budgeting a lot more for speakers than any receiver.

Looks aren't terribly critical in speakers but form factor and size are important. I want to stick with the bookshelf with subwoofer model. Another factor is I'm loathe to pay more for something just because of the brand name. There must be some speakers out there that deliver more bang for the buck.

At the same time, I realize that there are reasons to loosen the purse strings a bit more. As an example, I bought a new guitar yesterday. I played a bunch of acoustic/electrics in the $500-$1000 range. I ended up walking out with the one that cost $1000. Some of what went into that price was cosmetic stuff but after playing 6 different guitars, I got the best one in my price range. Once I heard that guitar, the rest suffered by comparison.

I expect something similar could happen when I audition speakers.

 

[jostenmeat]

I'm going on the theory that amps aren't as critical as speakers. I mean amps in the mid-fi or better category. That means I'll be budgeting a lot more for speakers than any receiver.

Looks aren't terribly critical in speakers but form factor and size are important. I want to stick with the bookshelf with subwoofer model. Another factor is I'm loathe to pay more for something just because of the brand name. There must be some speakers out there that deliver more bang for the buck.

At the same time, I realize that there are reasons to loosen the purse strings a bit more. As an example, I bought a new guitar yesterday. I played a bunch of acoustic/electrics in the $500-$1000 range. I ended up walking out with the one that cost $1000. Some of what went into that price was cosmetic stuff but after playing 6 different guitars, I got the best one in my price range. Once I heard that guitar, the rest suffered by comparison.

jliedeka !

I follow your thread with great interest because it is a good one, numerous knowledgable folks have chimed in, and perhaps also because you enjoy classical like I do, and are a musician to boot. (I barely qualify as one anymore). For the last musical instrument I chose, I tried over 100 over a two year span, visiting or talking with famous luthiers world wide, and tried instruments that either formerly or presently belonged to world famous musicians. I also got what was the best for price for me in the end. So, years later, when the audio bug reallly took hold in the worst way possible, I told myself, "ok man, you have to audition at least 50 pairs before choosing". I only got to 25 or so. My audio equipment already costs about as much as my musical instruments!

OK, I agree that speakers come first. Everything else will fall into place, I believe. I am going to be a "broken record" here, because it doesn't seem to get any mention at Audioholics, or just anywhere much in general, but I believe your choice of source (cd player) is a huge factor. It will affect your sq more than your receiver/pre-pro/amp or all of those combined, imo. Simply assuming that amplification is adequate. My cdp, though expensive, was just a small portion of total budget, and I can easily say it has tremendous effect. Just want to throw that out there, because if I didn't, Im not sure anyone would. Or you can just think about that later down the road. But if you are getting speakers as nice as I think you might, it is something to consider and hopefully audition.

Ok, thats out of the way. Can you listen to Monitor Audio around you?
Then Saturday Audio is selling their pairs for:
Silver 1 for $399 (8 pairs left)
Silver 2 for $449 (7 pairs left, even better deal)
Gold Reference 10 for $999

I was going to list for you good tower deals as well, but I almost forgot you are sticking with bookshelves. Anyways their Gold 20 tower is half off (cherry sold out).

I expect something similar could happen when I audition speakers.

You can bet your life on it.

*pssst* go with the Golds.