Ready For New Towers and Need Advice

[Ronman45]

Greetings from a "Newbie" here who's first post is to solicit advice regarding new towers to be placed in an extremely challenging room. I retired a couple of years ago and now find myself listening to a whole lot of music daily. The room I'm spending most of my critical listening (laughable with my level of tinnitus) and highly enjoyable time in lately is so non-conducive to enjoying a decent sweet spot I thought I would reach out for some guidance. The living room is a real bear though. The room dimensions are 24' 10" L x 11' 6" W that opens up another 3' 4" wide a few feet to the left of the left speaker via an approximate 30-degree angled wall with a 3'8" opening to accommodate the front door entry and the stairway up to the bedrooms (the house is a traditional salt box two-story). The speakers are positioned to project lengthwise down the room to the recliner I sit in, which is a few feet from another opening on an angled wall (approx. 22 - 30 degrees) in the room with a large opening that is egress to the kitchen/den area. So, the actual width of the room where I sit, and listen is actually 11'6" with that angled egress opening 6'10" to my left. Basically, my recliner is in the corner approximately 20 feet away from and directly in front of the right speaker. The spacing between speakers is 7'6" because they are positioned in an 18" deep by 8'10" wide kick-out that is the front wall of the house containing six large windows stacked 3 on 3. I can't sit in the sweet spot unless I grab a deck or lawn chair and sit in the middle of that room, which isn't going to happen. I obviously can't purchase speakers that have rear-firing bass ports, which significantly limits my choices. The gear I'm listening to in this particular room is:
Marantz ND8006
Marantz SR5004
NAD C272 (currently pinch-hitting for the MM7025 that is up at United Radio getting the DC trigger input functional)
Martin Logan Dynamo 1000
Polk S10's (1995) on 8" stands
I have owned and babied the speakers since I bought them new in '95 and last month I replaced those 7 1/2" mid-woofers with brand new original spec speakers I found online at Midwest Speaker Repair, however I'm obviously way overdue for some better speakers. I mostly stream HD music from Amazon Unlimited due to getting hooked on jazz last year. My budget for new speakers is about 1k each, that's what the wife agreed to. I have been looking closely at the Wharfedale EVO 4.4's, the PSB X2T and Polk R700. I want to go with a true 3-way speaker design, and I have always gravitated toward warm sounding gear. I know everyone has their likes based on their own gear and preferences, but please keep in mind the room dimensions. Now, I'm going to wait for some advice and just read.
Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[Verdinut]

Welcome to AH,

Ideally, you should hear speakers before you commit to buying them.

I would suggest that you go to a nearby city if possible, and visit at least one and preferably a couple of specialized audio shops. Bring one or two of your preferred CDs which will help in your comparisons. Some stores will allow you to return the speakers. Your room acoustics differ from those of a store, and this might change your opinion.

What one likes is not necessarily what another will be interested in. There are also several speaker reviews on this site. Have fun in your search.

 

[Ronman45]

Welcome to AH,

Ideally, you should hear speakers before you commit to buying them.

I would suggest that you go to a nearby city if possible, and visit at least one and preferably a couple of specialized audio shops. Bring one or two of your preferred CDs which will help in your comparisons. Some stores will allow you to return the speakers. Your room acoustics differ from those of a store, and this might change your opinion.

What one likes is not necessarily what another will be interested in. There are also several speaker reviews on this site. Have fun in your search.

Thanks!

 

[Eppie]

@Ronman45 Agree with Verdinut. I recently demod some name brand speakers that I expected to be very good and they were down right disappointing. If you can find a local store on-line maybe provide us the link or list the speaker brands that they carry. We can try and recommend something to listen to in that price range.

 

[Danzilla31]

@Ronman45 Agree with Verdinut. I recently demod some name brand speakers that I expected to be very good and they were down right disappointing. If you can find a local store on-line maybe provide us the link or list the speaker brands that they carry. We can try and recommend something to listen to in that price range.

I second this 100% I used to be fascinated with golden ears towers but when I demoed them at Bjorns they were horrible I mean horrible compared to other brands you really need to go listen.

If you purchase online make sure the company has a generous return policy so you can demo them at home to see if they can work

In store check about the same thing. How a speakers sounds in the store may not work as well in your room

 

[Ronman45]

I'm in a rural area near a small farming community approximately 2 hours from two retailers that have showrooms. It looks like Focal, KEF, Paradigm, Wharfedale and Polk are the brands I'll be able to hear. Like many, I really like the looks and size of the Linton's, but, due to the recessed area the speakers will be placed in, the rear ports are pretty much not an option. After 25 plus years of listening to the loose bass and underachieving midrange from my old S10's, I want to hear some nice tight bass and balanced three-way sound before my tinnitus gets any worse. Thanks for the advice, I'm going to go listen to some of the aforementioned speakers and hope I find something within my budget.

 

[mono-bloc]

Ideally, you should hear speakers before you commit to buying them.

This is a good advice, but what a lot of people do, is get carried away, with the new sound of there intended purchase. And pay no attention to the amplification being used. Please remember the dealer / salesman has to offer the best amplification possible to attract a buyer. Regardless of cost. You on the other hand are on a budget, So always look and ask just what there using, There's little point in hearing a set of speakers if the amp is way outside your budget. Tell the dealer what you have and suggest he uses the same type, model in the demo. If he gives you the old story about having something set-up, which he can't change, Just tell him you have also changed your mind. And your very sorry you bothered him. And walk very slowly towards the door.. He'll change his mind if he thinks he's missing out on a sale.

 

[Eppie]

I'm in a rural area near a small farming community approximately 2 hours from two retailers that have showrooms. It looks like Focal, KEF, Paradigm, Wharfedale and Polk are the brands I'll be able to hear. Like many, I really like the looks and size of the Linton's, but, due to the recessed area the speakers will be placed in, the rear ports are pretty much not an option. After 25 plus years of listening to the loose bass and underachieving midrange from my old S10's, I want to hear some nice tight bass and balanced three-way sound before my tinnitus gets any worse. Thanks for the advice, I'm going to go listen to some of the aforementioned speakers and hope I find something within my budget.

Those five are all reputable brands. Focal Chora 816 tower (made in France) is in that price range (maybe the 826 as well --- not the 826-D with ATMOS). Not all stores stock them though. EVO 4.4 and Polk R700 (as you mentioned) are good options. Paradigm Premier 700F and 800F is Canadian designed. KEF (U.K. designed) has the Q750 and Q950. The Paradigm Premier 800F has reviewed very well here. Next step up would be the KEF R5 or Polk Legend series, but then we're getting over $3,000. Of those 5 brands you stand a good chance of finding something you like.

Those models I mentioned can be found on Crutchfield if you want to see pictures and look at the specs.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

Thanks!

Thanks!

Agree with Verdinut; very sound advice!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

…I want to go with a true 3-way speaker design…

Does it really matter as long as the speaker sounds great and have good speaker measurement?

There is no guarantee that a 3-way is better than a 2-way.

Just like there is no guarantee that certain tweeter types sound better than others.

Objectively, what matters most to me is having good quality components and speaker measurements.

Subjectively, obviously the speaker has to sound great.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

Does it really matter as long as the speaker sounds great and have good speaker measurement?

There is no guarantee that a 3-way is better than a 2-way.

Just like there is no guarantee that certain tweeter types sound better than others.

Objectively, what matters most to me is having good quality components and speaker measurements.

Subjectively, obviously the speaker has to sound great.

I agree. I've owned both 3-way and 2-way and both sounded great. mono-bloc above also raised a good point. Dealers will connect the speakers to a high-end amplifier unless you specifically ask them for an amplifier comparable to what you have. I got burned on that once. Was less impressed when I got the speakers home.

 

[SithZedi]

I saw that Crutchfield has three of your choice speakers in stock. If you get the time, you should try their "speaker compare" listening application. I have not done so since I do not have a decent pair of headphones but a good friend has told me it's actually helpful to determine what he describes as the "warm sound".
Since you can try it out from your recliner at home maybe give it a shot. I'd be curious as to what you think.

 

[Pogre]

I obviously can't purchase speakers that have rear-firing bass ports

No, that is not obvious at all... lol.

A basic description of the room is helpful but typing up all of those dimensions doesn't translate very well into a mental picture for me, lol. I'm not seeing why you'd need to rule out rear ported speakers unless they're right up against a wall, and that's not ideal for any speaker.

A weird or asymmetrical room layout doesn't always translate into a challenging room. In fact the more square a room is the more challenging it is to get a decent bass response. I have a large room with openings to a hallway and another big room and have managed get things sounding pretty good in here.

Which brings to your seating. Do you sit 20' from your speakers? Or did read that wrong? Speaker placement and listening position are by far going to have the greatest impact on sound quality. I get that you don't want to be sitting on a lawn chair in the middle of your room, but perhaps take a look at sliding your chair over to the left so you're more in between your soeakers? Nothing drastic. You don't have to be perfectly smack dab in the middle of the sweet spot but the further you get from it... quality speakers will only take you so far.

How close are your speakers to room boundaries? Are they right up against a wall? *That's the only reason I can think of to rule out rear ports. From the description it sounds like you have enough room to pull them out a little bit? That's going to negatively affect sound quality too.

Not trying to talk you out of getting new speakers, but it looks like you might have some opportunities for improvements without too much hassle.


*Edit: Now I see!

due to the recessed area the speakers will be placed in, the rear ports are pretty much not an option.

 

[Verdinut]

Dealers will connect the speakers to a high-end amplifier unless you specifically ask them for an amplifier comparable to what you have. I got burned on that once. Was less impressed when I got the speakers home.

What you say just proves that your amplifier could not handle a difficult to drive speaker. It doesn't mean that the speaker wasn't good as it sounded good at the store.

Some speakers have an impedance which dips down to below 3 ohms, sometimes also with a weird phase angle curve, at frequencies where are most power demands. Amplifiers with a limited power supply are not designed to drive them at all or at levels approaching their rated output. Unfortunately, those poorly designed speakers are among the expensive ones. B & W and Martin Logan products are examples.

 

[Mikado463]

What you say just proves that your amplifier could not handle a difficult to drive speaker. It doesn't mean that the speaker wasn't good as it sounded good at the store.

Some speakers have an impedance which dips down to below 3 ohms, sometimes also with a weird phase angle curve, at frequencies where are most power demands. Amplifiers with a limited power supply are not designed to drive them at all or at levels approaching their rated output. Unfortunately, those poorly designed speakers are among the expensive ones. B & W and Martin Logan products are examples.

with regards to Martin Logan and electrostatics in general their impedance drop which is opposite of 'cone' speakers happens at high frequencies where in all honesty little music content exists. Electrostatics get their bad rap mostly due to their capacitive challenges they present to 'poorly designed amplifiers' !

 

[Ronman45]

No, that is not obvious at all... lol.

A basic description of the room is helpful but typing up all of those dimensions doesn't translate very well into a mental picture for me, lol. I'm not seeing why you'd need to rule out rear ported speakers unless they're right up against a wall, and that's not ideal for any speaker.

A weird or asymmetrical room layout doesn't always translate into a challenging room. In fact the more square a room is the more challenging it is to get a decent bass response. I have a large room with openings to a hallway and another big room and have managed get things sounding pretty good in here.

Which brings to your seating. Do you sit 20' from your speakers? Or did read that wrong? Speaker placement and listening position are by far going to have the greatest impact on sound quality. I get that you don't want to be sitting on a lawn chair in the middle of your room, but perhaps take a look at sliding your chair over to the left so you're more in between your soeakers? Nothing drastic. You don't have to be perfectly smack dab in the middle of the sweet spot but the further you get from it... quality speakers will only take you so far.

How close are your speakers to room boundaries? Are they right up against a wall? *That's the only reason I can think of to rule out rear ports. From the description it sounds like you have enough room to pull them out a little bit? That's going to negatively affect sound quality too.

Not trying to talk you out of getting new speakers, but it looks like you might have some opportunities for improvements without too much hassle.


*Edit: Now I see!

That is excellent common sense-based advice, and I appreciate it. Dang, I'm really liking this forum Lol!

I ended up purchasing one of the last new pairs of LSIM 703's available, contrary to my initial decision to stay away from rear bass ported speakers. I put them on Sanus 26" stands. The speakers are positioned approximately 20" from the windows in that beast of a Living Room. My preference for a 3-way design is heavily influenced by my fifty plus years playing guitar in some pretty serious bands, a few of them good, over the past five decades. I still record in my home studio, which consists of the entire purpose-driven, finished lower level with plenty of man-hours and money spent tuning the room. With tone, as well as sound quality in general being so subjective, I'll just offer that I have found (personal preference here) a properly tuned and adequately powered 3-way system, regardless of size (large sound reinforcement or a bookshelf speaker) will reproduce those mid to upper mid freq's in a more efficient and accurate fashion (to my ears anyway) than a 2-way system or speaker. My near-field studio monitors are KRK active (bi-amped) 2-ways and they sound good enough I can mix and master with them along with a pair of Beyer 880's, my point being I totally get it regarding good 2-way speakers that are crossed over well. I guess I'm just a stubborn old dinosaur.

Here's an interesting caveat, when I received the 703's and hooked them up, my NAD C272 was still in the rack due to the MM7025 wasn't back from the shop yet due to an intermittent DC trigger issue. I listened to them this way for about a week until the Marantz arrived back from United Radio. I pulled the NAD, hooked up the 7025 and "meh." I could not get the stellar upper mid's and highs no matter how much EQ I threw at those new speakers. It just didn't sound good to my ears at all. So, I hooked the NAD back up and the magic returned. So much for aesthetics Lol. That 7025 sounds just fine being fed by my Marantz SR 5004 receiver and pushing my trusty old pair of Polk S10's for a big, albeit a little bombastic sound, but it's a bit of a "tone turd" with the new 703's. I think the 703's are so honest they have exposed the MM7025 as a price-point driven amp designed for people like myself who already own similar looking Marantz components and want to stay with a uniform look. I wonder if any of the other forum members have the same opinion regarding those MM7025's. Of course, a thousand bucks doesn't get a person much of a new amp these days. "You get what you pay for" keeps popping into my head lately...