RBH, Paradigm or Axiom for large room?

[fredk]

it refers to the the perceived "harshness" of the treble in speakers.

Brightness as originally defined, and as Dean is using it, refers to an 'edge' or crispness that you get with live music.

Generally people like a slightly rolled off high end, but if you look at anechoic measurement for Paradigm studios, or Axioms, you will see that they are reasonably flat over the upper end of the frequency, and there is nothing in the measurements that would indicate that either brand would be 'harsh'. It does give these speakers a sharper/crisper/edgier sound.

That said, at this point, you need to listen to some of these to decide for yourself what sound you like.

With a $5K budget, I would look at allocating a nice chunk to a good sub that will reach nice and low for movies.

Now, collect some well recorded music that you are familiar with, pick up a notepad, go forth, listen and record. Your ears will narrow down the selection for you. Have fun and if you buy something don't forget to come back and post lots of pics.

 

[fredk]

By the way, with that budget and your concerns about kids, I would go with floor standers. The M80s would fill that room with all the sound you ever want, and give you plenty of detail and soundstage from quiet to very very loud. I expect that applies to floorstanders from RBH and Paradigm (studios) as well.

 

[parinshah]

Thanks! Looks like we will be selling the Hitachi DLP and will probably go with a projector/100"screen.

I just spoke with Axiom, and they are going to be making cabinet speakers for the m60's and m80's. I don't have a cabinet, but they said I could prewire and place them in the sheetrock for a clean finish. Any thoughts on doing this?

Also, with a EP500 sub....are the m60's sufficient or do I need the m80's? Even though the room is 30x18x10, the Sofa will be 15' from the screen and we won't be blaring music while playing pool...with 2 kids, getting too old for that

I was initially really hoping to get the in-wall w22's with a EP500 sub and then place some surrounds half way in the room and another set of rears or M3's at the back of the room, but seems that won't cut it, huh?

 

[parinshah]

Oh also (and I will post this in the other thread)...

My builder uses a home theater company that sells only certain brands, but they will only install if i use there brands...is that normal? I don't see why I cant buy the stuff I want and have them wire and install for me..

 

[nova]

Oh also (and I will post this in the other thread)...
My builder uses a home theater company that sells only certain brands, but they will only install if i use there brands...is that normal? I don't see why I cant buy the stuff I want and have them wire and install for me..

I should imagine this is quite normal. I mean the installer has his/her reputation to protect. If they install a quality RBH product and have hundreds of happy customers, then you ask hime to install some,...below average speakers supplied by you, and they sound like garbage after the install,... well use your imagination, you want your money back or for them to make it sound right, he says "I told you so", won't do anything for you because he just did what you wanted,... and on and on and on. No one is happy in the end, you loose money, his rep is tarnished,.....

 

[sgtpepper9]

Also, with a EP500 sub....are the m60's sufficient or do I need the m80's? Even though the room is 30x18x10, the Sofa will be 15' from the screen and we won't be blaring music while playing pool...with 2 kids, getting too old for that

I've got the M60s in a listen space twice that size and they fill the room more than adequately. Also consider that the M80s are a 4 ohm speaker so a normal a/v receiver may not be enough to power them.

 

[the grunt]

I just spoke with Axiom, and they are going to be making cabinet speakers for the m60's and m80's. I don't have a cabinet, but they said I could prewire and place them in the sheetrock for a clean finish. Any thoughts on doing this?

This link talks about advantages of flush mounting speakers to a wall.

http://www.genelec.com/learning-center/technology-tutorials/flush-mounting/

However, I prefer to have the speakers free standing so that I can play with their positioning to get soundstage just the way I want it. Once the speakers are in the wall this may be costly. Only you can decide if flush mounting them is worth it to you.

Also, with a EP500 sub....are the m60's sufficient or do I need the m80's? Even though the room is 30x18x10, the Sofa will be 15' from the screen and we won't be blaring music while playing pool

Either the M60s or M80s will work fine for your room. The only real difference is that the M80s will play a little louder and are considered a little more detailed than the M60s but I haven’t heard the M60s for myself to verify that. I think Fred has an may post his impressions as I think he demoed them at Axiom.

I was initially really hoping to get the in-wall w22's with a EP500 sub and then place some surrounds half way in the room and another set of rears or M3's at the back of the room, but seems that won't cut it, huh?

I think that plan would work fine. The W22 will work as long as you don’t want it really loud. I’ve A/B’d the M22+EP500 and M80s+EP500 and found them to be almost the same. The M80+EP500 combo had a little more impact and sounded a little fuller in the upper bass to me but then I was only sitting 6 feet away. For peace of mind I would go with the 60s or 80s for your room but there’s no reason the 22s wouldn’t work. Also I think a pair of QS surrounds and M3s in the rear would round out your system nicely.

Also don’t worry about the M80s being 4ohm should you decide on them. Denons are very good at driving 4ohm speakers. I have a Denon 2807 driving 3 4ohm M80s and 4 6ohm QS8s without a problem.

As you can see I picked Axiom myself and couldn’t be happier but I still wish you would go out and demo as many speakers as you can at one location and report back what you did and didn’t like. You’re laying out a big chunk of money here especially if you go with in-wall mounting and really would do yourself a service to listen to some speakers to be sure your getting ones that sound the way you want.

Cheers,
Dean

 

[parinshah]

I do really like the clutter free look of the w22's with a 7.1 system. Just want to be reassured that they will fill the room this size well...they do seem small. Again, I don't really blast music...and I am a minimalist.

This house will start construction next month. Since I may opt to buy a new projector and 120" screen, and sell the Hitachi 70", maybe its worth to wait till I move in and see what everything looks like in the room before I spend all this dough. That way I will have a better feel for where I want the speakers. I should get everything prewired though.

 

[the grunt]

Getting everything pre wired but waiting on the speaker purchase itself sounds like a great idea. Something else to consider in getting the W22s is that they cost a lot more than their freestanding counterpart the M22, while there is something to be said for clutter free it will cost you.

If you do stick with Axiom give serious thought to buying through their factory outlet if your not getting a custom finish. I’ve saved 10% on all 10 of my Axiom speakers that way and not as much as a blemish on any of them.

I’m not sure if you are saying you are a minimalist just in your surroundings or that is also your taste in music but I definitely like minimalist music though more of a functionalist in the mundane world. There is a great internet radio station SomaFM based in San Francisco I listen to all the time especially their “Drone Zone” feed. This sounds great on my Axioms especially the way the QS8s bring out the ambiance of the music.

 

[AVRat]

Axiom Epic 60 - 500 Home Theater System 5.1
http://www.axiomaudio.com/epic60_500.html#

with 2-M3s for rears or the in-wall equivalents would work well in your room.

The LP (listening position) should not be placed half the room’s length because of room mode issues. Roughly, 40% of the length from the front or back wall is preferred.

One thing I’d suggest if you go with in-walls, especially up front, is to plan the speaker placement for a larger screen than your planned 100”. The L/R perhaps 12’+ apart and the center 24”-30” above the floor. This is one reason in-room speakers are preferred over in-walls, placement can be easily adjusted.

 

[fredk]

I just spoke with Axiom, and they are going to be making cabinet speakers for the m60's and m80's. I don't have a cabinet, but they said I could prewire and place them in the sheetrock for a clean finish.

I was wondering about those the other day. I don't know what the difference between a cabinet and in wall speaker would be. If they are the right depth to be mounted in the wall, they should work just fine.

As far as volume and M60 vs M80 I have no doubt that either would be just fine for your space.

As far as the W22, I would still ask Axiom if those would work for your space. I know that others felt that the M22 sounded thin compared to the floorstanders in a large space.

Waiting until the house is built is probably a good move. As long as the room isn't finished you can still easily do a wallmount speaker.

 

[parinshah]

Is there a big difference between the Axiom 350 subwoofer compared to the 500? I ask because there is a big price difference!

If i went with the w22's, I think I would need to go with the EP500. But if i went with the floor standing m60's, would I still need to spend the extra for it?

Thanks!

 

[fredk]

The difference between the EP350 and the 500 is on the bottom end. The 350 has a stated -3db point of 28Hz (I get to ~21Hz in my room with room gain), vs a -1.5db point of 18Hz for the 500. You will notice the difference with movie lfe where there can be significant sound below 20Hz.

With the sub properly set up you will notice little or no difference below the sub crossover between the M22 and M60. You will get more detail in the crossover range and through the upper range of the woofers on the M60 because it is more bass capable. How much? It is probably quite subtle and would only be heard in a direct comparison between the two systems.

 

[parinshah]

Thanks...so i will go with the w22's and EP500 sub