RBH MC-616 vs Emotiva ERM-1 vs eD A6 6T6 MTM

[FirstReflection]

It's an understandable concern. But remember that at a seating distance of 12 feet away from the speakers, you only need about 10 Watts each to drive the Emotiva speakers to over 90dB!

It's true that the 605 may struggle to hit full 105dB peaks (you'd need around 200 Watts of dynamic power to do so and the 605 cannot muster that), but 90-95dB is loud in anyone's book and the 605 will have no problem getting you to that volume.

The ERM-1 speakers never dip below 3.2 ohms (as per THX specifications) and they also do not produce much sound at all below 80Hz. That keeps the power demands quite reasonable and shouldn't tax the 605.

You can absolutely dump around 400 Watts into the Emotiva speakers, so there is plenty of headroom left if you want to upgrade your amplifier in the future, but for now, as long as you are ok with around 95dB as your max volume, the 605 will do just fine.

 

[ack_bak]

Thanks again firstreflection. It really sounds like the Emotiva's will work after all. I am going to call Emotiva first thing tomorrow AM and talk to one of their techs just to clear it with them.

 

[FirstReflection]

You're welcome! And that's a very good idea to call or write to Emotiva

You may notice that they don't really trumpet the 4 Ohm rating in their specs anymore. It's sort of hidden in the long list of features, but not included in the "short form" that has their dimensions, +/-3 dB points, efficiency and whatnot.

That omission is not by accident. Many people were concerned with the 4 Ohm rating and some people even speculated that it was a "racket" to get you to buy one of their amps for fear that the speakers would melt your receiver!

Well that's not the case. These are no more difficult to drive than the old M&K THX Select speakers, which were small bookshelf speakers with a 4 Ohm rating, but 100% meant to be driven by a mid-level receiver. THX Select, after all, was intended for 10 foot listening distance or shorter.

Bottom line, yes the Emotiva speakers will call for more current than some other speakers, but they are not like some of the 4 Ohm towers out there that dip way down to 1 Ohm at some frequencies. And since they do not produce much of any bass below 80Hz, the amp is not having to power a large driver or move its excursion to huge limits.

Anywho, Emotiva should be able to clear up your concerns

Best of luck!

 

[ack_bak]

Well, I spoke to am Emotiva tech and while he confirmed that the ERM-1's are stable and constant around 4ohms he was a little concerned with the Onkyo specs and told me that he recommends sticking with Onkyo's recommendations on pairing the 605 with 6-8ohm speakers.

So I, somewhat reluctantly, had him cancel the order.

So I am back on the hunt and leaning towards the SVS SCS-01's. I still wonder about those HSU B1-MKII speakers though. I know they have a rear port, but their engineer did mention that they would be fine with mouning near a wall as long as they have at least 2" of clearance.

I also was able to listen to some Klipsch R51 speakers which I liked as well. Again, I believe they have a rearport though.

 

[bandphan]

Well, I spoke to am Emotiva tech and while he confirmed that the ERM-1's are stable and constant around 4phms he was a little concerned with the Onkyo specs and told me that he recommends sticking with Onkyo's recommendations on pairing the 605 with 6-8ohm speakers.

So I, somewhat reluctantly, had him cancel the order.

So I am back on the hunt and leaning towards the SVS SCS-01's. I still wonder about those HSU B1-MKII speakers though. I know they have a rear port, but their engineer did mention that they would be fine with mouning near a wall as long as they have at least 2" of clearance.

I also was able to listen to some Klipsch R51 speakers which I liked as well. Again, I believe they have a rear port though.

get a new avr way to may speakers dip into the 4ohm range even if they are nominal at 8. Sell your and bump it up to the 8 series onk ect

 

[ack_bak]

get a new avr way to may speakers dip into the 4ohm range even if they are nominal at 8. Sell your and bump it up to the 8 series onk ect

I wish I could, but it is not in the budget right now. I think the Onkyo is fine with dipping into the 4ohm range, I think the concern from the Emotiva tech would be running them continuously in the 4 ohm range.

 

[ack_bak]

Checked out a couple of different speakers at several different B&M audio stores today:
Yamaha
Klipsch
PSB
Definitive Technologies
NHT

Basic reviews
The Klipsch speakers are just a little too "bright" for me (auditioned the RB81 and RB51). From what I heard they packed a punch but were lacking in the middle ranges. I understand why people like these speakers though. But they are just a little too "harsh" for me for extended listening. At least I think These also had rear ports, which I am trying to stay away from.

Yamaha. I liked the higher end Yamaha bookshelf speakers I heard, but they were pricey (Soavo was the name I believe)? The more affordable bookshelves sounded pretty solid. I liked the NS700/750, but these are still over my budget.

PSB. I really liked these speakers (PSB25). I thought they sounded quite good and seemed to have a very good balance in what I am looking for. The sound was less harsh to me than the Klipsch speakers and when I closed my eyes I definitely felt that these speakers had more of a live realistic sound to them. More natural. Price in store was way too much. Just checked online and these are just out of reach for my price range when you add the center speaker. Nice speakers though.

Deftech. (Pro monitor 1000). Liked the speakers, but not as much as the PSB's and the price was too high when you add the center speaker into the mix. I also tried some lower priced Deftechs, and just did not feel the performance for the $$ was worth it. They sure do look nice though

NHT (classic 3's, they did not have the 2's in stock). Like the PSB's, I really liked these. Perhaps the most. Tough call. I thought they were a very solid speaker and a nice balance with regards to highs, mids, and lows. Very clear and crisp and really immersive. The 3's were out of my price range but I have seen some deals for the 2's online, but they are out of reach when you factor in the center. I really enjoyed these.

I am glad I took the time to listen at a few local B&M stores. I am convinced now that I am not going to get the HSU HB1-MKII's. I am uncertain about the rear port, and I am just not sold on horn speakers based on my liking. It is not that they sound bad. They just sound a little "forced" to me compared to other speakers. It is possible that the HSU's are not as bright as the Klipsch speakers, but the rear port is the deal breaker I believe.

I really liked the PSB 25's and the NHT 3's. I am certain that I would be very happy with either of these choices along with my RBH speakers for surrounds and my eD subwoofer. At the B&M stores, they were just too much. Looking around online at trusted dealers I see a couple of deals, but are still more than I want to spend.

I decided to pull the trigger on the SVS SCS-01 speakers for mains and center. I was up late last night scouring reviews and eveybody who has purchased these speakers as mains has very high praise and has been quite pleased. They seem to meet all of my criteria and would be a good fit I believe. Worst case, I can return them and get my money back and just such it up and buy either the PSB's or NHT's.

I would be interested in hearing from PSB/NHT owners out there (specifically PSB 25 and NHT 2's).

Thanks!

 

[ack_bak]

Update:

My speakers (3x SVS SCS-01's) arrived yesterday morning. The boxes were small and easy to manage and were packed very well (kudos to SVS for not skimping on packaging). Here are my thoughts:
- It was torture, and I mean torture, working from home and making myself wait until the work day was over to unbox them and set them up

- Wow. These speakers (SCS-01's) are much smaller and lighter than my old Polk towers and center. I am not having buyers remorse at this point, but I am wondering if the SVS speakers will be much of an upgrade over the old Polkies...

- The speakers appear to be well made and look good. Wife came down as I was unboxing them and they passed the WAF test!

- I really like the tilt-base for the center speaker. I have a 100" screen and a projector so the center has to sit below the screen. My old Polk center was placed lower than I would have liked, but the SCS center with the tilt base really helps. Nice touch SVS (and I like that it is optional).

- I had some old metal stands and the SVS speakers fit pefectly on them. The stands are nice and modern looking and I never used them (they came with a nice TV stand that I used to use with my 56" Samsung DLP before I sold it and got a PJ).

- Got everything hooked up and ready to go around 5:30pm but had to eat dinner, run some errands, and then get the kids to bed and help pickup the house (a 3 and a 1 year old can make some big messes)

- Around 8:30 I calibrated the speakers using my Radio Shack SPL meter and the internal test tones on my Onkyo 605 receiver. So far so good

- I remembered the Avia II disc that SVS sent for free with the speakers and decided to calibrate off their internal sounds as well using the SPL meter. Interestingly enough, I found some minor differences between Avia and the Onkyo test tones. I went with Avia. Everything was close, but four out of the five speakers were off just a decibel or two. Again, nice touch including this disc SVS. Kudos.

- I really debated with crossover settings. With my Polk speakers things seemed to sound good at 100hz all around vs 80hz. I went with 80hz this time all around.

- I did bump up my subwoofer a few decibels above the reference point (75db) that I used for the rest of my speakers. Settled on 78(db's) on the SPL.

- Time for the show! Anticipation was killing me.....

- Decided on Ratatouille on Blu-Ray as I have spent a lot of time with this disc and am very familiar with how it sounded with the Polk speakers.

- Skipped straight to scene 4 (Caught!). Holy sh#$! Wow! And to think that I was worried that the SVS speakers would not be an improvement over my Polk speakers.... The difference was immediate and apparent as soon as the scene started. First of all, the sound was much cleaner than with the Polks. The dialogue was definitely more audible through the center channel and the overall sound seemed very natural and uncolored to me. I felt the highs were perfect along with the imaging. The Polks were definitely lacking compared to SVS in terms of both imaging and highs, but what I love about the SVS speakers is that it is not forced upon you like I have noticed with Klipsch speakers that I have demoed. I keep coming back to the word natural to describe these speakers, along with balanced. Very impressed. The soundstage was definitely broad enough for my space and seemed slightly broader than the old Polk speakers.

- It was amazing how clear these speakers are. There was a lot going on during this scene in the movie. You have the sound of rain falling. You have shotgun blasts. You have water running. You have the clang of metal on metal. Windows breaking. Thunder. And mixed in all of the above you have dialogue. The SCS-01's did not hesitate once or let me down. Everything came through clear and balanced. Nothing felt overpowering to me at all. Wow. I had every intention of trying out other material but I ended up watching the movie for another 20 minutes just taking everything in. My wife came down and wanted to hear them as well so I fired back up the "Caught" scene and she was very impressed as well (my wife is no audiophile). She told me that they definitely sounded better than the old speakers as well and that she was happy that they were smaller

I don't know what else to say except that I am kicking myself for not getting these speakers sooner. Now I feel that I have to go back and watch many of my movies again because of the apparent improvement in sound quality. My wife insisted that we watch both "24" and "Chuck" last night (twist my arm) so I was not able to demo any other movies, but plan on watching another movie tonight.

Overall, I really do not have any complaints. I was worried that the speakers would not play as nice with my RBH 815 in-ceiling speakers, but they really sound great together. I also felt that the eD A2-300 sounded wonderful with these speakers. I truly have no regrets. SVS was great to work with on the phone and I love the fact that they did not cut any corners on these speakers. They look good. They sound great. They were well packaged and the inclusion of the tilt base and the Avia II disc are major pluses. And the price. You cannot beat it. I was listening to speakers that cost almost twice as much as the SVS speakers did and, to me, they sound every bit as good. I really do not see how you can go wrong.

I will post some more pics later and will provide more feedback as I get some more time in with the speakers.

 

[ozmedia]

Thanks for the feedback. Honestly, I was also leaning towards the RBH speakers as well, but it looks like I won't be able to take advantage of my hookup with these speakers (ie gettting them at dealer cost) at this time. My connection is really swamped with work and life at this time and I just do not want to bother him (he is working 2 jobs right now to make ends meet). I called RBH directly and they will not sell to me direct or even sell me b-stock since there is an RBH dealer in my area. After a quick call to the dealer, it has become apparant that the 616's are just going to be too expensive at this time. Too bad.

So I was leaning towards the Emotiva speakers. But I was doing more research last night and am now really leaning towards the SVS SCS-01 speakers. They get very solid reviews and I called them up and spoke to them and they were extremely helpful and knowledgeable.

And now I am researching the HSU bookshelf speakers as well..

MC-616's are really nice,so are the MC-414C's (though they APPEAR small they have big sound). MC series are pretty transparent but not reserved. In fact I find the MC's an almost forward speaker, with great imaging.

What I would suggest on budget, would be to go for MC-6Cs, not too pricey and ample for your room, then you can always up to the MC'616's or even the 616-SE's from the Signature line when you have more money and use the MC6's as rears or in another room.

Behind a screen, nowhere to install an MC-616 in-wall? Would save you that extra money without sacrificing sound.



OOOPS sorry, I just noticed that you had received your speakers already; which I can tell you are more than happy with.
Will leave the post intact just in case others need alternate choices as well.

 

[ack_bak]

MC-616's are really nice,so are the MC-414C's (though they APPEAR small they have big sound). MC series are pretty transparent but not reserved. In fact I find the MC's an almost forward speaker, with great imaging.

What I would suggest on budget, would be to go for MC-6Cs, not too pricey and ample for your room, then you can always up to the MC'616's or even the 616-SE's from the Signature line when you have more money and use the MC6's as rears or in another room.

Behind a screen, nowhere to install an MC-616 in-wall? Would save you that extra money without sacrificing sound.



OOOPS sorry, I just noticed that you had received your speakers already; which I can tell you are more than happy with.
Will leave the post intact just in case others need alternate choices as well.

Thanks for your post. I love RBH speakers and live in Northern Utah but could not get my normal discount and my local dealer wanted to charge me more than I was willing to spend.

RBH makes some excellent speakers (I use 815 in-ceiling speakers for my surround). In fact my father-in-law has the MC-414 line. I have to say though, I think the SCS-01's are better. I would love to compare them to the 616's though. And while I like their (RBH) subs, I have found them to be a lacking when stacked next to SVS, HSU, eD, etc.

 

[FirstReflection]

Hey, congrats!

I'm definitely a fan of SVSound's speakers. I believe them to be very fairly priced and their design and performance is accurate and neutral. I think you would have also been very impressed with the Emotiva speakers if they had worked out for you, but you won't hear me complaining about buying SVS instead!

Excellent choice and even more excellent to read that you and your wife are happy with them! The best part will be demonstrating the very real and obvious difference that good quality audio can make to your friends and family. People are almost never convinced, no matter how knowledgable you may be, but when they hear it for themselves, that's when it finally makes sense! Good quality doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg and it doesn't have to look ugly or be huge

 

[lsiberian]

MC-616's are really nice,so are the MC-414C's (though they APPEAR small they have big sound). MC series are pretty transparent but not reserved. In fact I find the MC's an almost forward speaker, with great imaging.

What I would suggest on budget, would be to go for MC-6Cs, not too pricey and ample for your room, then you can always up to the MC'616's or even the 616-SE's from the Signature line when you have more money and use the MC6's as rears or in another room.

Behind a screen, nowhere to install an MC-616 in-wall? Would save you that extra money without sacrificing sound.



OOOPS sorry, I just noticed that you had received your speakers already; which I can tell you are more than happy with.
Will leave the post intact just in case others need alternate choices as well.

UM make sure you use 3 vertical channels. You have a PJ so no shelf is needed below the PJ.

 

[ack_bak]

Hey, congrats!

I'm definitely a fan of SVSound's speakers. I believe them to be very fairly priced and their design and performance is accurate and neutral. I think you would have also been very impressed with the Emotiva speakers if they had worked out for you, but you won't hear me complaining about buying SVS instead!

Excellent choice and even more excellent to read that you and your wife are happy with them! The best part will be demonstrating the very real and obvious difference that good quality audio can make to your friends and family. People are almost never convinced, no matter how knowledgable you may be, but when they hear it for themselves, that's when it finally makes sense! Good quality doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg and it doesn't have to look ugly or be huge

I want to personally thank you for all your assistance in my search for speakers. I would have liked to have stacked the Emotiva, HSU, and SVS speakers side by side and really done some testing, but in the end that just was not going to happen and I am definitely happy with the SVS SCS speakers. As you mentioned they are very accurate and neutral. Spent some time with them last night listening to some music and watched a dialogue driven movie "Groundhog Day" on Blu-Ray. A definite improvement over my Polk speakers, especially for dialogue.

I am going to experiment with my crossover settings. I had the Polks set at 100hz previously and then set the SVS speakers to the THX recommended 80hz range. I may try 90hz and 100hz. I feel that the bass is just a little lacking for TV, but is fine for movies.

Yeah, I am excited for some of my family members to come over and listen to them. I believe I am going to host a showing of "Qunatum of Solace" at my house on the projector. That movie sounds very good on Blu-Ray and should be a good test for my speakers