RBH 1266SE v. Onix Reference and AXIOM 80v2 and matching centers - need assistance

H

HTHOLIC

Audioholic
Hey,

I really want to a great floorstading not just for parties and whatever but because it would be a great solution for music that's usually in 2 channel, and since most music is in 2 channel , or the surround music , ie dts has most of its importnat notes coming from that channel, its a great idea.

I also have a question about center channels. Okay herein lies the issue.

It is well-known that RBH is superior to axiom audio in terms of speakers but RBH obviously is higher in price so it isn't really a comparison per se.

The RBH signature series- has a 1266se and a 661 center, but have 1 tweeter and 2 woofers, with the 126ee having a subwoofer built in at 12 inch. I don't know why the 1266's 12 inch cant go lower than 27hz at 3+-db while its 10 inch subs can do so.

Okay, so then the next line is the Onix reference systems.

Its kinda funny that the $7,000 onix has 4 reference speakers and just a regular center channel. I mean are you going to use 4 big floorstanding speakers and just a typical two woofer center channel, isn't the center more important the surrounds, it seems that its not matching up.

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=28.1

The $1,000 center speaker has just two 5 inch woofers and one tweeter. The reference in contrast has two tweeters of which one is a supermagentic tweeter which goes from 15khz (Can anyone please answer who listen to sounds above 15khz, sure I can barely here it, but after age 20 it gets difficult anyone please answer this question?)

Anyways noting that, the reference is just 1 subwoofer, 1 woofer and tweeter and a supertweeter that goes stricly after 15khz in.

Here's my confusion, much talk has been about dynamic range and soundstange, I don't know much about that except dynamic range being going quickly from one end of the sound spectrium to the other and soundstage the lenght of the area that the sound projects.

The axiom speakers don't seem as top-notch as the RBH, which is why the RBH was chosen as reference system 3 at audioholics, although the axioms are great for the price and much cheaper, Here in lies the Question

The RBH 1266se is about $2,500 for a pair
the Onix reference about $3,500 (3,000 and $700 for the center if i get the package) a pair.
The Axiom m80's a mere $1,300 a pair.

The Axiom m80 epic theater package WITH A SUB THATS MUCH BETTER, ep500 that's the best of the packages runs $4,000 in 7.1.

My question of note has to do with axiom having multiple drivers compared with RBH and AV123

The Axiom M80v2 has 2 woofers, 2 subwoofers built in, and two tweeters, the center has 3 woofers and 2 tweeters, and each of the 4 surrounds has doublel tweeters and woofers.

I note that the woofers in the axion's are only 5 inch, with the exception of the subwoofers in the m80v2 which are 6.5 inch yet go down to 34hz and even 28hz at 3-9_+db.

Do multiple tweeters and woofers create a better soundstage in terms of its projection for parities and so on, or music performance listening in the home.

The Onix seems overpriced compared to RBH if RBH is the flagship. I don't get the need for that super tweeter above 15kz as hardly anyone listens to 15khz if they can even hear in that range. People after 25 or so have a hard time hearing in that range.

Okay so which one will give me the best performance for the money, I hope Clint, gene and whoever owns these can chime in. I don't get Onix's package subsuting surround speakers for two florrstanding and charging $7,000 would it be better than RBH?, and the center has just two woofers and a tweeter, probably not better than my $200 center speaker from svs or the axion or atleast not that better.

Knowingthat the center channel is needed for dialogue, I think av123's system is UNBALANCED.

Do you really need florrstanding speakers as surrounds, if so then then you need a florrstanding speaker for a center channel.

Most systems go likethis: floorstanding speakers, a great center and either regular booksehlfs for surround, or multipole speakers for surround like the RBH Dipoloes or the Axiom QS8.

Audioholics plesae help me out, its thousdands of dollars and I want my money to get to the best for the money.

If I go with the RBH Signature series, can I use a HSU or SVS box subwoofer rather than the RBH's weaker 1010 subwoofer. Will that alter the "signature of the system"?

Please answer my questions so I can put the best use of my family's money. I would owe them an excuse as to my wise choices.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
P

Pianoman84d

Audioholic
I don't have much time this morning, but:

you can mix and match by using any sub you like with the rest of the speakers.

The Onix Reference series will have an upgraded center to match the Ref 3 and 4 called the Ref 200. It is in development (see the av123 forum for more info on it).

On specs in general, just b/c the RBH only is spec'd to 27hz does not mean that in all rooms that's all you will get. Also, the reason it is not spec'd lower that the subs is b/c the subs have the built in amps.

My suggestion would be to go on the forums of the various manufacturers and ask around and see if anyone will let you listen to their setups!! Find ones you like and order away!!! Don't stress too much over the paper specs, if it sounds good to you, thats all you need:)
 
corysmith01

corysmith01

Senior Audioholic
Wow. Lots to address here. I won't try to tackle them all, but i think this was great advice in general:

Don't stress too much over the paper specs
Looking at these three systems and trying to deliniate which is better based on paper is simply impossible. Comparing drivers and trying to determine which will work best based solely on how many are used and what size they are? That's simply not going to work. Sooooo much more goes into design and design goals that go well beyond simple driver choice. Even within one size of driver (5 1/4 inch for example), there are infinite numbers of choices. When these guys get together, they don't just chuck drivers into and MDF box and start patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Months/years and countless hours go into the design, and the tweaking of those designs, to accomplish their goals. It goes well beyond which drivers, and how many of them they use.

I could go on, but suffice it to say, it's virtually impossible for you to clearly pick a winner on paper. Heck, even if one could be determined as clearly "better", who is it clearly better for? They all have thier positives and negatives and someone's positive may be your negative. It's all about personal choice. The best advice is to give them a listen, either at an owners home, or doing an in-home trial, which is going to be your best option, though granted, not feasible for everyone. Good luck with your hunt. I'm sure others will chime in on this with further info.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
The RBH 1266se is about $2,500 for a pair
the Onix reference about $3,500 (3,000 and $700 for the center if i get the package) a pair.
The Axiom m80's a mere $1,300 a pair.
Speaker choices boil down to a matter of listening preference, budget, and aesthetics. As you pointed out, the M80s vs the 1266's is NOT a fair comparision since they aren't in the same price class though the M80s in Vassallo finishes come dangerously close in price.

The Onix speakers are nice speakers. They have a very focused and detailed sound to them though they aren't quite as dynamic as the RBH's. Again it all depends on your listening preferences.

If your gonna spend over 3k, also consider the RBH 1266-SE/R version with Status driver upgrades. This is one of my all time favorite sounding tower speaker systems and it uses the venerable Scan Speak 9500 tweeter which IMO is one of the best dome tweeters ever made regardless of price.

Check out my RBH Sound T-2p review where I discuss the performance of the 1266-LSE's (similar to SE/R-s but with upgraded xovers).

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/rbh-sound-t-2

As for subwoofers, I agree you can do better than the "current" RBH 1010 for the price.

However, it becomes quite a challenge to mix full range speakers with dedicated subs. If you don't have the right calibration tools and experience, this can become a nightmare.

You may wish to consider going with RBH 661-SE/R's and setting up dual powered stereo subs.

Three 661-SE/R's up front coupled with 2 JL F112's, 66-SE's for side channels and 61-SE/Rs (or SI-740s) for back channels would be a killer setup IMO.

Check out my review of the RBH Signature SE/R system:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/rbh-sound-signature-se-r
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
Speaker auditions

Before making a major speaker investment, consider posting a request for auditions on the manufacturer forums and schedule a couple auditions. Though less cost effective w/ floorstanders, you could also audition the mains from a couple different manufacturers in yor home and return the loser.

I think that the Onix Rocket line might be more comparable to the Axiom speakers and most consider the Onix Refrence to be better than the rocket line. Also, several people are using the Onix Strata Mini's w/ Ref 100 center and Ref 1 surrounds for a HT system. For about half the cost of the Ref 3's, the minis are a great full range speaker, perfrect for 2 channel playback:
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=78.1
 
H

HTHOLIC

Audioholic
What about using the HSU subwoofer

Which calibration tools what I really need besdies the spl meters and the audessy corrections tools?

Hsu research came out with a NEW subwoofer with patented dual port technology, http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-ho-turbo.html

and claims it cane move 4 TIMES much air in extended bass mode as some of its other vtf models.

I beleive, that axiom, hsu , and svs subwoofers can outperform the jl subwoofers. Keep in a mind I don't have a mega room but its not that small either and I have a large yard that I can use floorstandings occassionaly.

I had a question of Multiple drivers being in the Axioms, versus the RBH center speakres, and the axiom having another tweeter and mid-woofer. Does that affect anything?
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I beleive, that axiom, hsu , and svs subwoofers can outperform the jl subwoofers. Keep in a mind I don't have a mega room but its not that small either and I have a large yard that I can use floorstandings occassionaly.
There is more to a subwoofer than how LOUD or LOW it will play. I suggested the JL's for a variety of reasons, reasonable size, great sound & build quality, and they are very linear above 80Hz which is often overlooked but important when getting that satellite / subwoofer splice.

I had a question of Multiple drivers being in the Axioms, versus the RBH center speakres, and the axiom having another tweeter and mid-woofer. Does that affect anything?
Sure, it effects sound, thats why they use them ;)
 
H

HTHOLIC

Audioholic
Okay, so does multiple drivers give additional output, if so then why don't the rbh's and onix need them.

I am referring to the center channel, ie the axion has 3 woofers and two tweeters rather than onix' 2 woofer and 1 tweeter.

The M80's also have an additional tweeter. Is there a need?
Is it because its titanium and not having as much output as a silk tweeter, I've read silk tweeters break up at high volumes.

And is the RBH 1266/SER a major improvement of the regular Se?

In regards to the subwoofer, does performance above 80hz matter if the sub is crossed over at 60hz?, the sub won't be playing above 80hz then and hsu sells a bass module that deals with upper frequencies. I am trying the best price/performance value in subwoofers as I will be spending a lot for rbh speakers

What about calibration that is needed, what else besides SPL meters and audiessy correction, and a decent acoustical room ie, no tile floors or big arch celings and glass walls.

How much does anyone know the estimated cost of the 1266/SER if anyone has bought it.The Hsu I am referring to is a new model that come out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
H

HTHOLIC

Audioholic
It would also be great to tell me calibration and other information that was handy
 
H

HTHOLIC

Audioholic
There is more to a subwoofer than how LOUD or LOW it will play. I suggested the JL's for a variety of reasons, reasonable size, great sound & build quality, and they are very linear above 80Hz which is often overlooked but important when getting that satellite / subwoofer splice.



Sure, it effects sound, thats why they use them ;)
If the crossover is set to 80hz or the recommended 60z then Why response above 80hz matter for the subwoofer, it you are going to split the response, wouldn't the hsu mid-bass module be better with it, and the rbh 1266 se doesn't use multiple drivers except for 2 midwoofers, so that confused me, it only has 1 tweeter , so does the onix also with respect to their center channels
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top