RBH 1010-SEN Dual 10" Ported Subwoofer mod

[Alex2507]

I've got this sub in a roughed up cabinet and because this amp didn't work (on at least the line level inputs). The amp powers on but has no output. I'm not really sure what to do with it. I do have a couple of Marantz MA700 amps (200w/8ohm 300w/4ohm) to use for power.

My thought is to remove one of the drivers and modify the cabinet's volume and port to optimize the remaining driver based on T/S parameters. I'm hoping ADTG can dig those up. Then I would build a matching cabinet for the other driver. My first requirement in a sub is having two subs. I have two matching drivers so I'm calling that a good start. I need help with the alignment.

I know I'm mostly talking to Mark so here's what else I have on my mind. I have some random but decent drivers kicking around. Namely an OW1 tweeter and at least one 4" Infinity midrange that came out of a Primus line speaker withh that MMD cone. I guess I have the makings of one Primus 360/362/363 speaker plus that killer OW1 tweeter and I would like to make a center channel using that OW1 tweeter.

 

[TLS Guy]

I doubt you will get much out of that sub with one driver per cabinet. If you do as you suggest then you will loose 6 db of output compared to the current arrangement. If they were side by side then you would loose just 3 db of output. Separated 6 db. I don't see this as a plan justifying the effort, unless those drivers are really spectacular. I would drive it with an outboard amp. It is ported so Eq in not and issue. Obviously the T/S parameters need to be known for the porting. Enclosure volume would need to be halved, as VAS is halved under your plan.

The other is highly problematic. Center speakers are really hard to design. The toughest of all, I just designed one last week.

Now the tweeter I'm familiar with, but I have no idea what the T/S parameters or the acoustic responses of those other drivers are. So there is no starting point for a design right now.

So project one is probably unwise. Project two has a highly dubious prospect of success. Much easier to start with a clean slate.

 

[everettT]

If you want to get the TS parameters, I'll be glad to loan you my Dayton woofer tester .

 

[TLS Guy]

I looked up the specs of that sub. You would end up with a sub at 84 db 2.83 volts 1 meter same for 1 watt 1 meter. Fs would still be 24 Hz. Power handling 100 to 200 watts per sub.

 

[Verdinut]

I agree with TLSG. If I was in your shoes, I would just use this sub in another room or sell it. I would build two new sub cabinets using Dayton RSS315HF-8 drivers which would give you a precise and clean performance.
However, to be able to use these, you would need the space. One RSS sub needs a ported cabinet with an internal net volume of at least 3.25 cf. With that box size, you would get an F3 at 25 Hz if you tune a box at 22 Hz. If you use a 4 cf enclosure, you could obtain an F3 at 20 Hz.

As a matter of fact, I built two 3-way speakers with 3.25 cf cabinets using these subs and I got amazing results. These transducers represent an outstanding value for their cost, and I'm sure you would never regret the expense. You could also start by building one and see for yourself. Those drivers can handle up to 700 watts of power each.

 

[Alex2507]

I looked up the specs of that sub. You would end up with a sub at 84 db 2.83 volts 1 meter same for 1 volt 1 meter. Fs would still be 24 Hz. Power handling 100 to 200 watts per sub.

The power requirement is much to my liking as I also have a pair of the smaller Marantz MA500 amps. 125w/8 ohms 185w/4 Ohms.

2.83 volts 1 meter same for 1 volt 1 meter

I recognize the terms but have a flaky grasp of the meaning, especially now with 1 volt and 2.83 volts producing the same 84 db. That's okay though. I'm going to look at that sub now to yank drivers and get ideas. I'm completely open to the idea of converting over to a slot port just so that I can use the shape in the baffle. Believe it or not this is about the most interesting thing I've thought about in a year.

If you want to get the TS parameters, I'll be glad to loan you my Dayton woofer tester .

Wt2 or WT3 and which would you prefer? I don't know how to use either so I'm reluctant to accept your offer and I'm pretty sure the T/S parameters are out there for all the drivers in question. The new tester has a usb. That might be my new toy later on if I ever start getting serious about actually learning but right now I'm just a builder.

I agree with TLSG. If I was in your shoes, I would just use this sub in another room or sell it. I would build two new sub cabinets using Dayton RSS315HF-8 drivers which would give you a precise and clean performance.
However, to be able to use these, you would need the space. One RSS sub needs a ported cabinet with an internal net volume of at least 3.25 cf. With that box size, you would get an F3 at 25 Hz if you tune a box at 22 Hz. If you use a 4 cf enclosure, you could obtain an F3 at 20 Hz.

As a matter of fact, I built two 3-way speakers with 3.25 cf cabinets using these subs and I got amazing results. These transducers represent an outstanding value for their cost, and I'm sure you would never regret the expense. You could also start by building one and see for yourself. Those drivers can handle up to 700 watts of power each.

I don't think TLS is discouraging me from using the RBH drivers. The foot print on the stock cabinet barely works in my living room and I live in a condo so I'm encouraged by 24 Hz at 84 db. This plan takes me a couple of solid steps up in SQ while eliminating some crafty EQ'ing for zero cost. My subs are nearfield so 2 lesser subs have always worked better than one better sub regardless of xo points and delay times.

 

[TLS Guy]

The power requirement is much to my liking as I also have a pair of the smaller Marantz MA500 amps. 125w/8 ohms 185w/4 Ohms.



I recognize the terms but have a flaky grasp of the meaning, especially now with 1 volt and 2.83 volts producing the same 84 db. That's okay though. I'm going to look at that sub now to yank drivers and get ideas. I'm completely open to the idea of converting over to a slot port just so that I can use the shape in the baffle. Believe it or not this is about the most interesting thing I've thought about in a year.



Wt2 or WT3 and which would you prefer? I don't know how to use either so I'm reluctant to accept your offer and I'm pretty sure the T/S parameters are out there for all the drivers in question. The new tester has a usb. That might be my new toy later on if I ever start getting serious about actually learning but right now I'm just a builder.



I don't think TLS is discouraging me from using the RBH drivers. The foot print on the stock cabinet barely works in my living room and I live in a condo so I'm encouraged by 24 Hz at 84 db. This plan takes me a couple of solid steps up in SQ while eliminating some crafty EQ'ing for zero cost. My subs are nearfield so 2 lesser subs have always worked better than one better sub regardless of xo points and delay times.

Into 8 ohm 1 watt 1 meter and 2.83 volts 1 meter are the same number.

I have just designed a box with 2 ten inch Dayton Aluminum drivers, that matches that sub you have exactly. So it would be a perfect match for the sub you have. Same F3 power handling and sensitivity.

What is the volume of that sub and its footprint? The total volume of this sub would end up 6 cu.ft give or take a little.

That would be a far better solution that altering what already seems a good design.

 

[everettT]

It's the WT3, and its straight forward for the most part, plug n play.

 

[Alex2507]

Into 8 ohm 1 volt 1 meter and 2.83 volts 1 meter are the same number.

I have just designed a box with 2 ten inch Dayton Aluminum drivers, that matches that sub you have exactly. So it would be a perfect match for the sub you have. Same F3 power handling and sensitivity.

What is the volume of that sub and its footprint? The total volume of this sub would end up 6 cu.ft give or take a little.

That would be a far better solution that altering what already seems a good design.

I'm not hearing what I want so I can not like this post.

Here's the thing, the dual RBH 10 inchers in that mini fridge sized cabinet (13-1/4" W x 30" H x 18" D) are actually too much sub for condo use. I figured taking one driver away and putting it in the opposite side of the room would be like moving an unused 3db to the opposite side of the room. If it has to stay as is, then it stays unused until I find the right use for it as is.

The cabinet looks to be about 3.5 ft^3 unless I really can't do math. Giving it a 6ft^3 mate isn't going to fly in our living room. Granted, the RBH is a good design but the cabinet is banged up. I figured cutting into it and removing a driver would only make the cabinet smaller/more usable and it would provide me with a template for the second driver's cabinet.

If somebody wants to buy it from me, I have $225 into it. Come get it. I would give this sub to one of my friends that like audio and that I owe favors to but the reality is that they wouldn't be interested enough to buy their own amp to drive it. So screw 'em. I guess I owe it to them to ask them if they want to pay for an amp.

How about an amp recommendation? The seller mentioned some class d, <$100 options that I might use.

Again, any ideas on what I should do with the broke RBH amp? I want to test the speaker level inputs to see if that might be the problem but I'm not at all hopeful. I guess sending it out for repairs isn't an option?

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm not hearing what I want so I can not like this post.

Here's the thing, the dual RBH 10 inchers in that mini fridge sized cabinet (13-1/4" W x 30" H x 18" D) are actually too much sub for condo use. I figured taking one driver away and putting it in the opposite side of the room would be like moving an unused 3db to the opposite side of the room. If it has to stay as is, then it stays unused until I find the right use for it as is.

The cabinet looks to be about 3.5 ft^3 unless I really can't do math. Giving it a 6ft^3 mate isn't going to fly in our living room. Granted, the RBH is a good design but the cabinet is banged up. I figured cutting into it and removing a driver would only make the cabinet smaller/more usable and it would provide me with a template for the second driver's cabinet.

If somebody wants to buy it from me, I have $225 into it. Come get it. I would give this sub to one of my friends that like audio and that I owe favors to but the reality is that they wouldn't be interested enough to buy their own amp to drive it. So screw 'em. I guess I owe it to them to ask them if they want to pay for an amp.

How about an amp recommendation? The seller mentioned some class d, <$100 options that I might use.

Again, any ideas on what I should do with the broke RBH amp? I want to test the speaker level inputs to see if that might be the problem but I'm not at all hopeful. I guess sending it out for repairs isn't an option?

Well that is what I wanted to know. So you could do your original plan and that would save space on the other cabinet. Or you could build two new cabinets for those RBH drivers, then you would have both be smaller cabinets. If you want to use those drivers, then making new cabinets rather then doing a bodge cutting that cabinet, would probably be less work.

Usually it is a hopeless endeavor trying to fix those class D sub amps. However as I said, since this is ported you could buy a Crown amp to drive the two subs.

As far as the center project that will have to be on hold, if it is even a feasible project. I'm trying to get a new house build off the ground. My wife wants the Eagan system duplicated in the new main level great room. She calls this her system and I'm barely allowed to touch it, at least when she is there. The catch is it has to be at least as good and she does not want to see it. So I have just designed the ultimate (yes, I mean ultimate) in wall speaker system.
The other two systems here, studio and downstairs will move to the new home, which will be a lot of work.

 

[Alex2507]

If you want to use those drivers,

That's exactly what I want. Once I have an alignment, the cabinet is of no concern. Now I'm excited about this again.

Usually it is a hopeless endeavor trying to fix those class D sub amps.

The RBH amp is not Class D but rather A/B. Here's the link to it:

https://rbhsound.com/sa200.php

Since I'm keeping the RBH subs, I'll use my amps on them. I just didn't want to give my amps away if I was going to give the subs away. I asked for the Crown recommendation for the potential recipient of the RBH subs, to buy for themselves. I feel like I did a lousy job explaining that but there it is.

I'm trying to get a new house build off the ground.

Put that on hold. I need a centre.

The footprint on the existing cabinet is small enough for me to use in both locations. The height is where my adjustment for volume lies. Good thing I didn't give it away.

Thanks very much

PS: I was kidding about the center, go build your house and give 'em hell the whole way ... and pic's please.

 

[lovinthehd]

Into 8 ohm 1 volt 1 meter and 2.83 volts 1 meter are the same number.

.

I think you mean into 8 ohm, 1 watt 1 meter and 2.83 volts 1 meter are the same....

 

[TLS Guy]

I think you mean into 8 ohm, 1 watt 1 meter and 2.83 volts 1 meter are the same....

I thought that was understood as we were talking about 8 ohm speakers. So yes at 8 ohm the number is the same. However into 4 ohm the 2.83 volt sensitivity is 3 db higher as the amp will deliver twice as much power into a 4 ohm driver at 1 volt input.

 

[lovinthehd]

I thought that was understood as we were talking about 8 ohm speakers. So yes at 8 ohm the number is the same. However into 4 ohm the 2.83 volt sensitivity is 3 db higher as the amp will deliver twice as much power into a 4 ohm driver at 1 volt input.

I was merely pointing out the error in what you wrote. Most of us by context knew what you meant despite the error (the error meaning you said one volt instead of one watt)....

 

[TLS Guy]

I was merely pointing out the error in what you wrote. Most of us by context knew what you meant despite the error (the error meaning you said one volt instead of one watt)....

You are correct I did not notice after looking at it twice that I put volt instead of watt. 2.83 volts obviously drives 1 watt into 8 ohm and 2 watts into 4 ohms.

 

[GranteedEV]

Namely an OW1 tweeter and at least one 4" Infinity midrange that came out of a Primus line speaker withh that MMD cone. I guess I have the makings of one Primus 360/362/363 speaker plus that killer OW1 tweeter and I would like to make a center channel using that OW1 tweeter.

What do you mean by "at least one"?

I mean, if you have two, then you're a cheap pair of tweeters away from all you need for a pretty interesting tower build. Those RBH woofers can probably go high enough to meet those MMD drivers that went pretty low IIRC, since they seem to be the same units that RBH uses in their towers.

 

[KEW]

What do you mean by "at least one"?

I mean, if you have two, then you're a cheap pair of tweeters away from all you need for a pretty interesting tower build. Those RBH woofers can probably go high enough to meet those MMD drivers that went pretty low IIRC, since they seem to be the same units that RBH uses in their towers.

Thanks for coming back!
I have missed your special combination of expertise and alternate viewpoint!

 

[Alex2507]

What do you mean by "at least one"?

I mean, if you have two, then you're a cheap pair of tweeters away from all you need for a pretty interesting tower build. Those RBH woofers can probably go high enough to meet those MMD drivers that went pretty low IIRC, since they seem to be the same units that RBH uses in their towers.

The pair of towers that had one entire speaker cooked by being too close to a heater left me with one good 4" driver. I have a small pair of intact P140 Primus bookshelves that use the same 4" driver. If I cannibalize them, there are three 4" drivers. I don't really want to do that. I thought about trying to convert the 360 tower into a center. It has a couple of 6" drivers and the xo they used for the tower. The wave guide on the tweet would be easy to turn 90 degrees.

I'm not sure that the tweet in the cookerd tower got cooked. It was the foam surrounds that developed cracks from the heat. The tweet might not have suffered the same fate. I might just copy my bookshelf design of 3/4" tweet and 4". I should be able to copy their xo and somehow stuff that in to a low profile box. We'll see. Or the OW1 with the two 6" drivers?

Subs first.

 

[Alex2507]

you could build two new cabinets for those RBH drivers

Are you able to post the T/S parameters for the RBH drivers?

I've heard you mention data bases with that info. Are the T/S parameters also available for my Infinity PS-10 subwoofers?

I guess at some point I might want to stick my head back in a book and/or try figuring out how to use some of the modeling software.

After I get my newly lost reading glasses replaced, Mark Rumreich's Car Stereo Cookbook has a chapter on subwoofer design that should probably get a good once over. It's a decent point of reference and sort of a vocabulary refresher course for 'that language'. Swerd's rec of (can't find book to reference it), stopped me in my tracks on page 3 with math.

Somehow I think I have time for all this. The reality is that after a little activity I need to get back home for a nap. Nine weeks of post surgical bliss culminates with me re-joining my old gym. Yesterday I went there twice. Huge place, plenty to do, mats, stretching tables, sparing dummies, kick bags, tractor tires etc. But I still need something to do with stolen moments. A place for my mind to wander when I'm suppose to be doing something else.

I am this II far away from waking my girl up to make coffee. She has been asleep all night and I need coffee now.

 

[Alex2507]

I doubt you will get much out of that sub with one driver per cabinet. If you do as you suggest then you will loose 6 db of output compared to the current arrangement. If they were side by side then you would loose just 3 db of output. Separated 6 db. I don't see this as a plan justifying the effort, unless those drivers are really spectacular. I would drive it with an outboard amp. It is ported so Eq in not and issue. Obviously the T/S parameters need to be known for the porting. Enclosure volume would need to be halved, as VAS is halved under your plan.

The other is highly problematic. Center speakers are really hard to design. The toughest of all, I just designed one last week.

Now the tweeter I'm familiar with, but I have no idea what the T/S parameters or the acoustic responses of those other drivers are. So there is no starting point for a design right now.

So project one is probably unwise. Project two has a highly dubious prospect of success. Much easier to start with a clean slate.

I don't know how I missed this post in its entirety. Okay, never mind about alignments and T/S Parameters unless "those drivers are really spectacular".

I'll find something else to think about. Thanks anyway.

Edit: New thing to think about: what the hell am I going to do with that sub? I guess I need to build System 3. I'm on it.