R & L Surround out of Phase?

[Mkilbride]

So, I googled about this quite abit.

I've checked the wiring, checked my settings, ect. I have them matched positive & negative, correctly. The wire itself is 16 gauge, which was hard as all hell to fit inside these Energy RC Micro though, but I managed it; the thing is, it's the same for all my speakers, so why only the Surround Left & Right? I wired them all the same, put them on the proper connectors...I even went around and checked for nicks and such things, as well as re-wired them or so. To get them into the small push pins, I have to twin it really small, almost like a thread of cloth, about an inch or so long,,I can't get it much bigger and still have it fit...I'm not sure if it's my wire strippers or something, but yeah...

It's when I run Audessy, it says "Surround R" out of phase, but when I take it off the wall, and run again, it passes sand says "Surround L out of phase"

So as far as I can tell, it has to do with wall-mounting them?

But then I have no idea of the solution, really...

Shot at 2012-05-19

Here is how they are mounted...I read in a guide to put them slightly above the Front L & R in terms of height, spaced farther apart, and to angle and tilt them towards you.

Which I've done. These are really the ideal place I can put them in my room...

Here are my fronts

I know the center isn't ideal; and the cloth is ontop of a wedge to angle the center at my face while I'm sitting my chair. I also have it sticking an inch out, as some guides told me that if a speaker must be put in a space like that, stick it out at least an inch and put some type of dampener between it and it's surroundings.

Thanks for your help.

(Been following this guide for a lot of helpful info)

BATPIG'S DENON-TO-ENGLISH DICTIONARY

There's this:

Q. I keep getting a phase error when running Audyssey, I check the wiring and everything looks good. What should I do?

A. If the wiring is correct just hit "skip" and move on. Occasionally the acoustics of your room/speakers may trick Audyssey into thinking there is an error. Here is the response in the Audyssey FAQ on the Audyssey website.

But I'm not to sure...

 

[Rob from NJ]

So, I googled about this quite abit.

I've checked the wiring, checked my settings, ect. I have them matched positive & negative, correctly. The wire itself is 16 gauge, which was hard as all hell to fit inside these Energy RC Micro though, but I managed it; the thing is, it's the same for all my speakers, so why only the Surround Left & Right? I wired them all the same, put them on the proper connectors...I even went around and checked for nicks and such things, as well as re-wired them or so. To get them into the small push pins, I have to twin it really small, almost like a thread of cloth, about an inch or so long,,I can't get it much bigger and still have it fit...I'm not sure if it's my wire strippers or something, but yeah...

It's when I run Audessy, it says "Surround R" out of phase, but when I take it off the wall, and run again, it passes sand says "Surround L out of phase"

So as far as I can tell, it has to do with wall-mounting them?

But then I have no idea of the solution, really...

Shot at 2012-05-19

Here is how they are mounted...I read in a guide to put them slightly above the Front L & R in terms of height, spaced farther apart, and to angle and tilt them towards you.

Which I've done. These are really the ideal place I can put them in my room...

Here are my fronts

I know the center isn't ideal; and the cloth is ontop of a wedge to angle the center at my face while I'm sitting my chair. I also have it sticking an inch out, as some guides told me that if a speaker must be put in a space like that, stick it out at least an inch and put some type of dampener between it and it's surroundings.

Thanks for your help.

(Been following this guide for a lot of helpful info)

BATPIG'S DENON-TO-ENGLISH DICTIONARY

There's this:




But I'm not to sure...

Received the same Caution Phase message from Audyssey this week with a new system. Researched the topic and there can be a number of issues that cause the error including speaker manufacturer intentionally reversing the phase due to crossover, room acoustics and mic placement, not necessarily incorrect connections. If you're wired/connected properly Audyssey advises to skip over the error as it will not affect the results. As a pre-caution I also ran the THX Optimizer Phase test (on a number of Pixar movies) to ensure my speakers are in-phase.

 

[FirstReflection]

Whelp, I might as well share the same experience here that I shared with Rob from NJ

In the past, I've had some funky experiences with Audyssey and YPAO (Yamaha) Auto Setup.

The way it is SUPPOSED to work is that you just run the Auto Setup and it does its thing to adjust the speaker settings and EQ.

In real life, for reasons unknown, the Auto Setup seems to be affected by where you have the volume dial set prior to running the Auto Setup, unless the unit is brand new or you have done a full "Factory Rest" to put all the menu settings back to the factory defaults - as though it were a brand new, fresh out of the box unit.

So here's the part that is often misunderstood:

you know how the display on the front of your receiver shows the volume as negative numbers? Well the reason it does that is because of what is known as "reference volume".

Reference volume is a sort of industry standard that calls for the average loudness in a movie to be 85dB with peaks as high as 105dB in the speakers and peaks as high as 115dB in the Low Frequency Effects (LFE) subwoofer channel. If you go to a THX certified movie theater, this is the loudness level. 85dB average, 105dB peaks...115dB peaks in the LFE.

This is very loud. Louder than what most people prefer at home, but there is some rationale for using it: human hearing is not linear. We hear midrange frequencies (the range of the human voice from about 200Hz up to around 2500Hz or so) a lot better than we hear deep bass or really high frequencies. But at 85dB, subjectively, the entire audible frequency range from 20Hz up to 20kHz sounds about equally loud to us. At a lower Sound Pressure Level (SPL), a deep bass note - like 40Hz or something - might measure the same as a midrange note...maybe they both measure 65dB, for example...but to our human ears, they don't sound equally loud. To our ears, even though they are both measuring 65dB, the midrange note would sound considerably louder than the 40Hz note. It's just the way our hearing has evolved!

But up at 85dB, the 40Hz note will sound just about equally loud as the midrange note. So that is a lot of where "reference volume" came from.

Anywho, getting back to receivers - the idea is that when the display on your receiver reads "0 (zero) dB", that is supposed to be "reference volume". You are supposed to turn your volume dial up to "0dB", and that is supposed to give you 85dB average loudness with 105dB peaks.

So when you run the Auto Setup, that is what it is aiming for. It is supposed to adjust the levels of your speakers so that when you have the volume dial turned up to "0dB", you will get "reference volume".

Now, that Auto Setup is SUPPOSED to make that adjustment regardless of any previous settings. In practice, I've found that to not always be the case. So the easiest fix I've found is to simply turn your volume dial to "0dB" and THEN run Auto Setup. It isn't SUPPOSED to be necessary - I've never seen any instruction manual say to do that. But I've found that it works, and Rob from NJ found that it worked for him too. So I honestly don't know WHY this happens, but it does. And it's a fairly easy fix, so there's no harm in giving it a try

Once "0dB" has been set as your "reference volume", you're under no obligation to actually listen at that level. Most people prefer a quieter playback level at home. And now those negative volume numbers make sense! They tell you how many dB below "reference volume" you are listening at. Most people like something in the range of -20dB to -10dB. And now it's easy to understand. -20dB on your volume dial means you're getting average SPL in movies of 65dB with 85dB peaks. -10dB on the volume dial would mean average SPL in movies of 75dB with 95dB peaks. Easy, yes?

If your receiver offers "Dynamic EQ", that also makes more sense now. Remember how a bass note played at 65dB might technically be just as loud as a midrange note that is also played at 65dB, but because our human hearing is not linear, the bass note won't SOUND as loud to us? Well Dynamic EQ is there just for that purpose.

When you are listening at "reference volume" with the volume dial set to "0dB", Dynamic EQ does nothing. Sounds are exactly as loud as they were intended to be at "reference volume". But, like we discussed, most people don't listen at "reference volume" at home. It's too loud for most people's taste.

But now there's a potential problem. At "reference volume" certain bass notes and really high treble notes were easy to hear. But when we turn the volume down to something like -20dB below "reference volume", now those same bass notes and really high treble notes SOUND much, MUCH quieter to our ears. For example, we really have a tough time hearing bass that is quieter than 60dB. So maybe at "reference volume", there is a bass note that is played back at 70dB. At "reference volume" this 70dB bass note would not sound terribly loud to us, but we would still be able to plainly hear it.

Drop the playback level down to -20dB though, and now that same bass note is only playing at 50dB. Since our human ears are rather poor at hearing bass, we might not hear that note at all any more! So even though it was supposed to be a fairly quiet bass note, now it is completely missing! Obviously, that's not ideal. So Dynamic EQ steps in and boosts that bass note in loudness so that we can hear it again Basically, Dynamic EQ just looks at the note and says, "well, up at reference volume, that note should have been quiet, but still audible. Down here at -20dB, people can't hear that bass note at all. So I'm gonna go ahead and make that bass note louder so that people can hear it again."

Cool, right?