R-115sw next to two r-112sws

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SpiritRises

Audiophyte
#1
Hi guys

I am deciding to add 2 more subs to my system.i already have a pair of klipsch r-112sws and i am looking at the 115sw.do you advice 115sw? Or do you have any other brand and model to advice?

I have denon x4400h .can it drive 4 subs?i read somewhere thst the denon's sub outs are designed as parallels so there should be no problem of using y splitter cables for 4 subs?

Edit: After i have searched a little bit more i have found the options in below;

SVS PB 2000

Monolith 12


is klipsch r-115sw better than those SVSS and monolith?

how much differences do gain over dual r-112sws ?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,259
#2
Best results and easiest set-up would be to have all subs matching each other. They don't have to, but the actual set up is more complicated if they do not match. (Mind, subs and speakers do not have to match at all.)
The SVS and Monolith subs will easily outperform the Klipsch subs. If anything, I would advise just stepping up to 2 better subs.
A general guideline would be to look at the size of your room, volumetrically, including all open area that your subs are exposed to. If its over 5000'3, you're definitely gonna want some bigger subs! But say 2000-3000'3, 2 ea of the PB2000 or Monolith 12 would be very respectable performers... perhaps with an edge to the Monoliths.
This is a good article, here that may help you understand a little better what I'm talking about when it comes to room volume and sub performance.

Also, Along with room volume, what is the size of your listening area? Also, usage: HT to Music?

Cheers!
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Ratings
4,634 34 17
#3
The Klipsch 15 should have slightly more powerful mid bass than the SVS or Monolith subs, but not as powerful deep bass. I would get rid of the existing Klipsch 12"s you have if you are adding SVS or Monolith subs. The Klipsch subs are not on the same level and have too greatly differing performance compared to these higher end subs.

A splitter will work fine for the Denon's sub outs.

Some other brands to look at in this price range are Hsu Research and Outlaw Audio.

If you don't want to get rid of your current subs, the Klipsch 15 may make a better fit with your existing subs since the tuning points are probably more alike. I would toss the Klipsch subs.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
5,018 22 9
#4
Is this for HT or music only?
If it is for HT, I would work towards switching to one of the ID sub companies (such as SVS, Hsu, Rythmik, PSA) or Monolith or Outlaw (who smartly hire specialized designers to do their subwoofers).
As Shady says, the difference is the amount of mid-bass vs deep-bass.
For most music, I believe the R-115's will provide deep enough bass to cover things well (and complement the R-112's reasonably well),but for HT, having the extra power in the deep bass when the depth charges go off is more fun:eek:. If money is no object, I would get the others; but if you work hard for your money, I'm not sure you will get enough improvement for the limited deep bass of music to justify the cost!
You can try out the SVS subs for free. Verify (it has been a long time since I have visited their site),but they used to give you 45 days to determine if you liked your purchase and they would actually pay return shipping if you did not - IOW, you pay nothing to try them out, if you don't like them!
Here is a little video on the PB3000 vs dual Klipsch R-115SW's with some REW measurements. Note that these measurements are in his room (your room will change everything),but the relative differences in the measurements has at least a little relevance!:
 
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SpiritRises

Audiophyte
#5
i actually live in Turkey and there is nowhere to test out those subs unfortunately.So i am down to the reviews but, i like my subs very much so i do not think about selling them,instead i want to paair them up with one of the ones below;

First one is especially SVS PB 4000

second is PB 3000 if i can find

3rd one is r-115sw or Monolith 12" or PB 2000

what i want to know is what happens if i pair one of those above with my current dual r-112sws?

Isn't each of them going to spend all their power to deliver the sound as they can do?Do they interfere each other? or i mean 112sws will go down to 24hz and beside that r115sw will say game is on?
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Ratings
4,634 34 17
#7
Is the Monolith 12" available in Turkey?

If you mix subs with different tuning frequencies, you can have phase conflicts below the tuning frequency of the highest tuned sub, and this can reduce the deep bass response.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,259
#8
Here is a little video on the PB3000 vs dual Klipsch R-115SW's with some REW measurements. Note that these measurements are in his room (your room will change everything),but the relative differences in the measurements has at least a little relevance!:
Bummer that he didn't compare the single subs in the same placement. I can only wonder what would happen if he found a better spot for his Subs, too; I'm guessing he has them on his front wall, though.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
5,018 22 9
#9
Bummer that he didn't compare the single subs in the same placement. I can only wonder what would happen if he found a better spot for his Subs, too; I'm guessing he has them on his front wall, though.
Actually, he did!
His best usable location is over his left shoulder (you can see it right after the video begins),and the second best was to his right (near the front corner IIRC). You can see that he goes to the Klipsch sub to his right to turn it off (~9:55) before he runs the PB3000, so we know the PB3000 was located in the position over his left shoulder.
Check at 9:20, he talks about stopping the video and moving the PB3000 in the "exact same location"!

All above references to times in video are for the previous video, not the following one!
He has another video on how he placed the subwoofers (be sure to catch his "little reveal" at 10:00). Also at 10:20 he talks about moving the subs around in small increments to find the best location:

Edit - I originally linked the wrong video. Corrected this at 6:35pm EST!
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
5,018 22 9
#10
Unfortunately, he never overlays the plots for a single R-115SW vs PB3000, but if you pause the first video below at 4:28 and the second at 13:28 you can see them next to one another (unfortunately, the scales are not quite the same, but it is pretty obvious from the dips and peaks that the sub is in the same place in the room):
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,259
#11
Unfortunately, he never overlays the plots for a single R-115SW vs PB3000, but if you pause the first video below at 4:28 and the second at 13:28 you can see them next to one another (unfortunately, the scales are not quite the same, but it is pretty obvious from the dips and peaks that the sub is in the same place in the room):
That's sort of what I did, cos I was curious! I got the feeling he didn't want to show up the single sub comparison... afterall, it was 2Ks to 1S. ;) But that seeled PB3000 chart showed dome impressive cabin gain! I would have liked to see a dual overlay of that against his Klipsch. :p
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,044 6
#12
That's sort of what I did, cos I was curious! I got the feeling he didn't want to show up the single sub comparison... afterall, it was 2Ks to 1S. ;) But that seeled PB3000 chart showed dome impressive cabin gain! I would have liked to see a dual overlay of that against his Klipsch. :p
I always enjoy his vids he posted a couple extra after that that keeps the comparisons going both measurements and real world testing. The last one he posted was the SVS 3000 against both of the Klipsch 15's in real world testing.

Mind you this is his take based in his room but the PB 3000 still out performed the 15's even when he went 2 against 1. That's pretty impressive for the 3000. The Klipsch 15's are a good sub especially for the money
 
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SpiritRises

Audiophyte
#15
The PB-4000 will be a noticeable improvement in loudness and low-end extension for sure.

Everyone says go for 2 subs and yes i do have 2 subs but when it comes to the PB-4000 you say it is better even than two r-112sws?
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Ratings
4,634 34 17
#16
Everyone says go for 2 subs and yes i do have 2 subs but when it comes to the PB-4000 you say it is better even than two r-112sws?
For the price of the PB-4000, yeah I would go for two good sub rather than 1 behemoth- for most people. However, you specifically asked for a comparison against the PB-4000, and the Klipsch subs probably won't match it, although as a dual sub system they would have some advantages. But, for the price of the PB-4000, you can almost get three SVS PC-2000s, and that to me would be a much more preferable system. You can also get three Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12s or Monoprice Monoliths 12" THX Ultras for the same range, and for a bit less, three Hsu Research VTF-2 mk5s. You could also get a couple of the Hsu 15"s in that same price range. Yeah, a PB-4000 would smoke two Klipsch 12"s, but there are other multiple sub systems that I think could match or outperform the PB-4000 for around the same cost.
 
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SpiritRises

Audiophyte
#17
For the price of the PB-4000, yeah I would go for two good sub rather than 1 behemoth- for most people. However, you specifically asked for a comparison against the PB-4000, and the Klipsch subs probably won't match it, although as a dual sub system they would have some advantages. But, for the price of the PB-4000, you can almost get three SVS PC-2000s, and that to me would be a much more preferable system. You can also get three Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12s or Monoprice Monoliths 12" THX Ultras for the same range, and for a bit less, three Hsu Research VTF-2 mk5s. You could also get a couple of the Hsu 15"s in that same price range. Yeah, a PB-4000 would smoke two Klipsch 12"s, but there are other multiple sub systems that I think could match or outperform the PB-4000 for around the same cost.

every option you mention about sounds perfect except one thing that i live in Turkey and none of the subs you mentioned above is available in Turkey :( .

The only option i have is sb-2000 , sb-4000 , PB-4000 and PB 16 Ultra and Klipsch R-115sw

i don't want a sealed subwoofer so i eliminate those sb series. I can't afford the PB 16 ultra and i am down to Klipsch r-115sw and PB-4000

For the klipsch, as i already have 2 of them (112s) i want something more powerful so my only choice is PB-4000 for now.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,044 6
#18
every option you mention about sounds perfect except one thing that i live in Turkey and none of the subs you mentioned above is available in Turkey :( .

The only option i have is sb-2000 , sb-4000 , PB-4000 and PB 16 Ultra and Klipsch R-115sw

i don't want a sealed subwoofer so i eliminate those sb series. I can't afford the PB 16 ultra and i am down to Klipsch r-115sw and PB-4000

For the klipsch, as i already have 2 of them (112s) i want something more powerful so my only choice is PB-4000 for now.
If you have the money you won't regret getting the PB 4000. I own 2!

But the Klipsch r115sw is a good sub for the money especially in duals. They cant outperform a 4000 heck they cannot perform a 3000 but they do a darn good job for that price

Heres the thing if you buy the 2 115sw your gonna love the improvement if you buy the 4000 or trial it first then hear the 115sws? well your going to be ruined for life and start chasing outrageous bass becoming hopelessly addicted like the rest of us here Lol:D

Welcome to AUDIOHOLICS! Theres a recovery program but none of us want to go :D
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,044 6
#19
T
For the price of the PB-4000, yeah I would go for two good sub rather than 1 behemoth- for most people. However, you specifically asked for a comparison against the PB-4000, and the Klipsch subs probably won't match it, although as a dual sub system they would have some advantages. But, for the price of the PB-4000, you can almost get three SVS PC-2000s, and that to me would be a much more preferable system. You can also get three Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12s or Monoprice Monoliths 12" THX Ultras for the same range, and for a bit less, three Hsu Research VTF-2 mk5s. You could also get a couple of the Hsu 15"s in that same price range. Yeah, a PB-4000 would smoke two Klipsch 12"s, but there are other multiple sub systems that I think could match or outperform the PB-4000 for around the same cost.
To this day Shady I still wish I had gone with the quad pc 2000's we had discussed

But I'm hopelessly addicted to the 4000's now
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Ratings
4,634 34 17
#20
T

To this day Shady I still wish I had gone with the quad pc 2000's we had discussed

But I'm hopelessly addicted to the 4000's now
Given that you didn't like the sound of the subs in the corners, PB-4000s would probably have been better for you anyway. The PC-2000's advantage is that they can be more evenly distributed around the room which might have made for a flatter response, but I think you prefer the sound of the subs in near-field. This probably gives them a bit more mid-bass at the expense of deep bass, so the subs might seem punchier instead of rumblier in your current position.
 

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