Questions! 12' subwoofers

[doomguardian]

Is there a significant difference between 12 inch subs and 10 inch subs?

I've never used a 12 inch sub nor a 10 inch, I want to go from my sony 155 watt 8 inch to something better, prefrebly from Athena.

As the AS-P6000 is the 12 and the AS-P4000 is the 10, what's the difference?

 

[Gov]

I would say so, I went from a HTIB Kenwood 8" to a Velodyne CHT10 which was a world of difference. Now I just got a Mirage S12 12" sub which is noticeably better than my 10" Velodyne. So the jump from 8" to either a 10" or 12" is pretty significant, IMHO

 

[j_garcia]

It entirely depends on the sub in question. The SVS PB-10 is a 10" sub that will embarras many 12" subs...so you'd kind of have to start by looking at specs. What is your budget?

 

[doomguardian]

I'm only going through Athena. I wanted to get the P4000 because it had a nice price, but, I wanted to know what the 12 inch P6000 had over the P4000 besides 400 watts more power.

Okay, plain and simple, is a 12' sub better then a 10' sub with the same power and brand name? And why?

 

[jaxvon]

Short answer: yes.

Long Answer:

The larger driver has more surface area, which means it can move more air than the 10", thereby allowing it to pressurize larger volumes of air (IE larger rooms). A larger driver from the same manufacturer wil usually have a lower Fs, allowing it to go lower in its frequency response, something important for movies which have a lot of low frequency effects. A more powerful amp is also desirable because it will be able to push the driver closer to the limits of its performance. Keep in mind that a larger driver does not necessarily mean lower frequency response, a lot depends on the box, the individual parameters of the driver model, and the purpose for which the sub was designed.

 

[doomguardian]

Thanks for the reply.

So, would the 10' sound just as good in a small room as the 12' in a big room?

Sorry, but I'm on a tight budget and it's very difficult for what to choose. I mean, being 14, it's hard to gather the money up.

 

[jaxvon]

Probably. I only have an 8" sub in a 14x11x10 room and it does quite well. Would I like more bass? Sure, but then there's the whole budget thing...

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Thanks for the reply.

So, would the 10' sound just as good in a small room as the 12' in a big room?

Sorry, but I'm on a tight budget and it's very difficult for what to choose. I mean, being 14, it's hard to gather the money up.

Consider how long you will have it, and try to think ahead - meaning "will I be sorry if I didn't get the larger sub." How long would it take you to save the extra cash to afford the 12" sub? If you're talking 6 months, I'd say go with the 10". If you are talking 6 weeks, go with the 12". You'll be happier in the long run, and speakers are something you may have for a very, very long time.

Athena makes a very impressive 12" sub. The extra power in the amp surprised me. I pushed one pretty hard during a demo. It was on a hard tile floor, and it literally walked across the floor.

On line, I'm seeing a $70-$120 price difference. I just put $70 of gas in my F150 today.

For the same price as the 12" Athena, you could also go with a super 10" Dayton Titanic sub - model 300-760 (64 lbs!!!). Now that 10" would be killer.

This would also be a great sub, probably the best 8" you can buy (weighs as much as the 12" Athena - 35lbs):
http://www.hsustore.com/stf1.html

Enjoy your sub - whichever you choose.

 

[Sheep]

The titanic won't go as low as the AS-P6000. Its a good sub, very big(P6000). I did a review of the older AS-P400 subwoofer and found it to be a good product.

If I were you, I would wait for these sub to go on sale. You can find the P4000 for 299CAD sometimes at FS.

A 12inch made a difference for me. Went from a 10inch athena to a 12inch velodyne and I will never go back.

SheepStar

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Sheep,

There's no comparison (on paper) between those two drivers. The Titanic will hit 105dB at 30Hz, and dip down into the mid 20's. The Xmax on that titanic driver is 18.7mm, which is insane.

List on the driver alone is $180, and weighs 20lbs. The magnet on the 12" Athena isn't even 2lbs.

I'm highly skeptical of the 21-120Hz +/-3dB on the P6000. It's a great sub, but very, very few subs hit 21Hz at any usable dB.

Has anyone done any pro reviews on either of the Athena's for specs?

http://www.onhifi.com/product/dayton_titanicsub.htm

 

[awesomebase]

Many factors

There are definitely many factors to consider, some have been mentioned already. There are diminishing returns on the effectiveness of a subwoofer as you get beyond 12" drivers (i.e. 15" and 18" drivers move great amounts of air but they may only provide 1 or 2 Hz lower frequencies than the next smaller size). By contrast, though 8" subwoofers can be very good, it is safe to say that you would know the difference between an 8" sub and a 12" sub of the same brand/kind. You may not notice as much difference between a 12" and a 15" or even between the 10" and 12", but it is definitely more pronounced between 8" and 12".
Without oversimplifying though, there are some things to consider. While many subs can definitely put out big boomy sound, it is much more difficult to find a good sub that can deliver "crisp" bass at lower frequencies while still providing loud and clear sound. Lower quality subwoofers, regardless of size will sound much more muddled and untamed. In general, a good quality sub, whether it is 8" or 12" will sound better for most applications than lower quality subs that are larger. Some people have a preference for "boomy" sounding subs, but for many purists, the goal of a good sub is to accurately reproduce the lower frequencies at good SPLs with minimal distortion and great clarity.

 

[doomguardian]

Thanks guys,

And yes, it's gonna take up to 6 weeks to get this sub (Athena 12' 600$ can after tax).

 

[BassHead]

Thanks for the reply.

So, would the 10' sound just as good in a small room as the 12' in a big room?

Sorry, but I'm on a tight budget and it's very difficult for what to choose. I mean, being 14, it's hard to gather the money up.

Yes you are right but all depends on brand you are talking,I have seen some 8" drivers pump bottom end better and louder than a 12" sub.i have seen and heard way back before many on this forum were even born ,made by energy ,I for get the model number it was something 100 ,Was a small box with two 6 1/2" drivers looked like a center channel but deeper and wider with a 100 watt amp at the rear you could slide it under your coffee table,Well i tell you its still in my mind this little box pumped out so much tight and low bass it was unreal,Some of to days 12 subs would be no where near comparing to,I think this sub came out 17 to 20 years ago by energy.I did see one go on goodwillbay last summer for only $200.00 and they were $450.00 when new.

 

[Sheep]

Sheep,

There's no comparison (on paper) between those two drivers. The Titanic will hit 105dB at 30Hz, and dip down into the mid 20's. The Xmax on that titanic driver is 18.7mm, which is insane.

List on the driver alone is $180, and weighs 20lbs. The magnet on the 12" Athena isn't even 2lbs.

I'm highly skeptical of the 21-120Hz +/-3dB on the P6000. It's a great sub, but very, very few subs hit 21Hz at any usable dB.

Has anyone done any pro reviews on either of the Athena's for specs?

http://www.onhifi.com/product/dayton_titanicsub.htm

That guy said it only went down to 28Hz. The Athena AS-P400 did better then that (not its 23Hz spec though).

Also, the P**** models use 2 ports, and bigger enclosures. This should help with the port noise and make them extend a bit deeper(port noise became a real problem).

SheepStar

 

[bobbydigital]

BassHead,
I found out from the Energy website the Energy sub your talking about is called the EPS-100. The lowest end model it looked like in the EPS series. It looks like a pretty interesting unit I would like to hear one.
It featured the dual 6.5 " woofers with two ports inbetween them. 100 watts rms .04% THD, 30 HZ-150HZ frequency response and it weighed in @ 40 lbs and measures 9" x 19" x 15"

 

[kalrith]

Thanks guys,

And yes, it's gonna take up to 6 weeks to get this sub (Athena 12' 600$ can after tax).

Where are you getting the sub from? AudioAdvisor.com has the 12" new for $400, refurbished for $250, and the 10" new for $150. The estimated shipping prices for me on the 10" were less than $20.

Since you guys are discussing subs, I have a question. I have a small room (12x12x8.5), and I'm about to purchase an entry-level HT system (Onkyo SR602 and Athena Point5 MK-II speakers). With this size room and that system, would the PS6000 provide too much bass, or would I be better off going with the PS4000? Would there be any problem getting a refurbished subwoofer? The only other sub I have looked at is the Dayton 12" at Parts express .com (do a search for dayton 12"). How does the Dayton compare to the Athenas or other subs in the $200 price range (after shipping)? If it matters, I'll be using it for movies and music equally.

Thanks for the help.

 

[doomguardian]

Where are you getting the sub from? AudioAdvisor.com has the 12" new for $400, refurbished for $250, and the 10" new for $150. The estimated shipping prices for me on the 10" were less than $20.

Since you guys are discussing subs, I have a question. I have a small room (12x12x8.5), and I'm about to purchase an entry-level HT system (Onkyo SR602 and Athena Point5 MK-II speakers). With this size room and that system, would the PS6000 provide too much bass, or would I be better off going with the PS4000? Would there be any problem getting a refurbished subwoofer? The only other sub I have looked at is the Dayton 12" at Parts express .com (do a search for dayton 12"). How does the Dayton compare to the Athenas or other subs in the $200 price range (after shipping)? If it matters, I'll be using it for movies and music equally.

Thanks for the help.

I'm getting the sub from future shop.