Question on: Line - Level Signal

[Jim_Maine]

After numerous attempts to try to find out why I can only raise the TV volume to a certain level when I use my DVD Player, I am thinking about getting a 2 channel Amplifier and having two wall mounted speakers close behind me when watching a DVD movie.

When just listening to the TV, the volume is fine, but when watching a movie on my DVD player, I could have the TV volume control all the way up, but the volume is barely audible, and I have a very difficult time hearing the dialog.

I am hoping a 2 - channel Amplifier and two rear speakers will correct this. I am looking at the M-282 Onkyo Amplifier, I have a question about its' description. the description states, The M-282 only amplifies a line-level signal; it does not include surround processing or a volume control like a traditional preamplifier or an integrated amplifier/surround receiver..

What does it mean when it states that it only amplifies a line-level signal and, it does not include.......... a volume control.

From the description above, will I be able to achieve an increased sound in the two rear speakers so that I can hear the dialog?

Thank you,

Jim

 

[Adam]

Jim,

Welcome to the forum!

That amplifier will take the signal that you feed to it and amplify it a certain amount. It doesn't have any ability to adjust how much it amplifies the signal (so, no volume control). If you send it a "fixed" signal from one of your components, meaning that the signal that you send isn't controlled by a volume control somewhere, then the sound coming from speakers connected to that amp will almost surely be extremely loud. Bottom line - you would need the ability to control the volume. We can certainly help you with that, and your TV and/or DVD player may be able to do it. If you tell us the model numbers, we can look it up.

Now, I'd like to discuss the low volume that you are getting from your DVDs. It sounds like a problem that I've experienced in the past. Do you have your DVD player connected to your TV using the two left/right RCA audio connections (the red and white connections)? If so, then it's entirely possible that the reason that the volume is so low on the TV is that the DVD player is not decoding the sound off of the DVDs the way that you want. If it is decoding full surround sound, but only sending the front two channels of sound to your TV, then it will be very quiet. You'd want to set the DVD player up so that it outputs a stereo sound track. If this sounds like it might be the issue, again...just let us know the model number of that DVD player, and we'll likely be able to get you all set up.

I'm off to walk the pooch, but I'll be back in a couple of hours.

Adam

 

[fmw]

For that price you can buy an A/V receiver. That will allow you to do what you want to do and a whole lot more.

 

[Jim_Maine]

Jim,

Welcome to the forum!

That amplifier will take the signal that you feed to it and amplify it a certain amount. It doesn't have any ability to adjust how much it amplifies the signal (so, no volume control). If you send it a "fixed" signal from one of your components, meaning that the signal that you send isn't controlled by a volume control somewhere, then the sound coming from speakers connected to that amp will almost surely be extremely loud. Bottom line - you would need the ability to control the volume. We can certainly help you with that, and your TV and/or DVD player may be able to do it. If you tell us the model numbers, we can look it up.

Now, I'd like to discuss the low volume that you are getting from your DVDs. It sounds like a problem that I've experienced in the past. Do you have your DVD player connected to your TV using the two left/right RCA audio connections (the red and white connections)? If so, then it's entirely possible that the reason that the volume is so low on the TV is that the DVD player is not decoding the sound off of the DVDs the way that you want. If it is decoding full surround sound, but only sending the front two channels of sound to your TV, then it will be very quiet. You'd want to set the DVD player up so that it outputs a stereo sound track. If this sounds like it might be the issue, again...just let us know the model number of that DVD player, and we'll likely be able to get you all set up.

I'm off to walk the pooch, but I'll be back in a couple of hours.

Adam

Thank you Adam for your help... here is what I have...

Sharp LC-37D62U... 37" LCD Flat Panel TV
Denon DVD - 1600

On the DVD Player to the TV, I am using Component Video Cables.. for the Audio, I am using Red & White RCA cables from the "Audio Out" Jacks on the DVD Player, to the "Audio In" on the TV.

As mentioned before, I only have the low volume when using the DVD Player. Even when I have the TV Volume all the way up to the max, the dialog is barely audible.

When I am using the VCR or just the TV by itself, I only have to put the volume up to a third of its range to hear it just fine.

I have presented this problem on other Forums, and the only answer they had was that I needed an amplifier with two speakers behind me.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Jim_Maine]

Jim,

Welcome to the forum!

Do you have your DVD player connected to your TV using the two left/right RCA audio connections (the red and white connections)? f so, then it's entirely possible that the reason that the volume is so low on the TV is that the DVD player is not decoding the sound off of the DVDs the way that you want. If it is decoding full surround sound, but only sending the front two channels of sound to your TV, then it will be very quiet. You'd want to set the DVD player up so that it outputs a stereo sound track.

Adam

In answer to your question, I have set up the DVD Player so that it outputs a stereo sound, and not the Surround sound.

Jim

 

[Davemcc]

Double check the red/white connection on the player. Make sure it is in the 2 ch. analog output and not in the 5.1 Front L/R analog outputs. Your description and Adam's insightful comments make it sound like you are only receiving the L/R portion of a 5.1 signal.

Edit - the other situation to consider is that you are only receiving crosstalk from that input. I've been trying to get some good images or info on the TV's input connections to confirm the setup configuration through component, to no avail just yet.

To rule out the player as the source, try running a red/white/yellow combo to one of the other inputs on the TV and see if the audio returns to a normal level.

 

[Jim_Maine]

Double check the red/white connection on the player. Make sure it is in the 2 ch. analog output and not in the 5.1 Front L/R analog outputs. Your description and Adam's insightful comments make it sound like you are only receiving the L/R portion of a 5.1 signal.

I just checked the connections as you asked, and the jacks are plugged into the 2 channel analog output of the player.

Jim

 

[Davemcc]

You posted while I was editing my prior post, see above. We can rule the player in or out as the culprit by trying to run it through another input and seeing if it works.

Alternatively, you know the VCR works. Try plugging the VCR audio into the analog inputs and see if they still work in that connection.

 

[Jim_Maine]

You posted while I was editing my prior post, see above. We can rule the player in or out as the culprit by trying to run it through another input and seeing if it works.

Alternatively, you know the VCR works. Try plugging the VCR audio into the analog inputs and see if they still work in that connection.

I tried running the player through another input and it made no difference, and the VCR works fine when plugged into the analog input...

Jim

 

[Davemcc]

I tried running the player through another input and it made no difference, and the VCR works fine when plugged into the analog input...

Jim

That's not good...

The player may be fubar.

 

[Adam]

Hey, Jim. Dave's got you going down the right track here in how to troubleshoot the issue. We're doing that here because we don't know what you've done in the past and why the other forums recommended a separate amp. In general, you should be able to connect a DVD player to a TV and hear the dialog. That's why we're trying to track this down and maybe save you some money. It's not abnormal to have the volume from a DVD be lower than a TV broadcast when connected like you have it, but it shouldn't be extremely low.

Some things that I'll mention just to double check:
1. The DVD player is set up for "2-channel" audio output.
2. Both the component video cables (three of them) and the two audio cables from the DVD player are connected into the jacks on the TV for "Input 3".
3. The Virtual Surround Sound mode is turned off (probably shouldn't matter, but it's something that you could experiment with)

Again, this is troubleshooting your DVD issue, like you have done in the past. We're more than happy to also help you pick out other equipment to get louder (and better) sound from your movies. As fmw stated, an A/V receiver would almost surely be a better choice than just a regular amp for your set-up. Onkyo makes a nice unit (the TX-SR506) that sells for about $200 from places like Amazon.

EDIT: I just saw you and Dave's last posts. Takes me too long to look stuff up and type. I still think that there are things here to try, though.

 

[Davemcc]

I also think there are things to try. Starting with the assumption that the 2 ch analog outputs may be bad, this player still has the 5.1 analog outputs as an alternative.

Set the speaker presence to 2 ch in the multi-channel menu (page 19 of the manual, option a), which you probably have already done. Then you should be able to move the red/white connectors from the 2ch audio out to the front audio out of the 5.1 analog output and still get the same signal.

 

[Jim_Maine]

I also think there are things to try. Starting with the assumption that the 2 ch analog outputs may be bad, this player still has the 5.1 analog outputs as an alternative.

Set the speaker presence to 2 ch in the multi-channel menu (page 19 of the manual, option a), which you probably have already done. Then you should be able to move the red/white connectors from the 2ch audio out to the front audio out of the 5.1 analog output and still get the same signal.

The speaker presence is set to 2 channel.... I moved the red & white connectors from the 2 channel and put them in the "Front" audio of the 5.1 output, and the volume is still at a low level.

For my DVD Player Audio settings, I have...

Speaker setting: 2 Channel
PCM Down Conversion: No
Dolby Digital: PCM.... (The other choice is Bitstream)
DTS Digital Surround: PCM.... (The other choice is Bitstream)
D. Range Compression: On
Audio During Search: On
SP V.S.S... Off
HP V.S.S... Off

Jim

 

[Jim_Maine]

Hey, Jim.

Some things that I'll mention just to double check:
1. The DVD player is set up for "2-channel" audio output.
2. Both the component video cables (three of them) and the two audio cables from the DVD player are connected into the jacks on the TV for "Input 3".
3. The Virtual Surround Sound mode is turned off (probably shouldn't matter, but it's something that you could experiment with)

1. The DVD Player is set up for 2 channel
2. The Component cables and the two audio cables are in Input 3, (my manual stated that I could have them in either Input 1 or Input 3..... (They were originally in Input 3). I put them in Input 1, and it didn't make any difference in Volume level.... (After that I put the cables back in Input 3)
3. The V.S.S. is set to... Off

Thanks,

Jim

 

[MDS]

DVDs have a very low average level with dialog typically around -30 dB. Contrast that with a music CD where the average level is -12 dB. You shouldn't expect the DVD to be as loud as a CD or broadcast TV.

In addition, the TV itself has a very low powered amplifier. There is nothing wrong with the setup or connections. If you want more power, you'll need to use a receiver or amplifier to increase the levels. A receiver is the easiest solution as it is a pre-amp and amplifier all in one and you retain control of volume levels.

 

[Jim_Maine]

DVDs have a very low average level with dialog typically around -30 dB. Contrast that with a music CD where the average level is -12 dB. You shouldn't expect the DVD to be as loud as a CD or broadcast TV.

In addition, the TV itself has a very low powered amplifier. There is nothing wrong with the setup or connections. If you want more power, you'll need to use a receiver or amplifier to increase the levels. A receiver is the easiest solution as it is a pre-amp and amplifier all in one and you retain control of volume levels.

Can you or anyone else here recommend a good receiver for around $200. I was planning on getting a pair of the... JBL SCS SAT500.... http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=SCSSAT500BK&status=
to go on the wall behind me.

I am not interested in ever having a complete Surround Sound System with multiple speakers. My wife and I are Movie Buffs, and we love watching DVD's, and we would just like to able to hear them without backtracking the DVD to try to hear what we missed.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Adam]

Jim, in the $200 range, I would recommend the Onkyo TX-SR506. You can order it for $202 in black from Amazon ($203 in silver). Amazon has had it for $180 in the past month or two, and they will price match themselves within 30 days of when you order if the price goes down.

Personally, I'd leave the speakers up front by the TV. You shouldn't have to put them behind you. The Onkyo paired with those speakers should be able to play loud enough.

EDIT: You could also use the digital audio connection from the DVD player to that Onkyo. You would just select stereo output because you are using two speakers.

 

[Jim_Maine]

Jim, in the $200 range, I would recommend the Onkyo TX-SR506. You can order it for $202 in black from Amazon ($203 in silver). Amazon has had it for $180 in the past month or two, and they will price match themselves within 30 days of when you order if the price goes down.

Personally, I'd leave the speakers up front by the TV. You shouldn't have to put them behind you. The Onkyo paired with those speakers should be able to play loud enough.

EDIT: You could also use the digital audio connection from the DVD player to that Onkyo. You would just select stereo output because you are using two speakers.

Thanks for the great info Adam... I am going to do as you advised...

Two questions though...

1. When you say that I could use the digital audio connection of the DVD Player to the Onkyo, are you referring to the Optical Audio Cable connection?

2. Why would you have the two speakers up front by the TV instead of directly behind you? I would think that the sound would be crisper if it is directly behind the listener.

Jim

 

[Adam]

Jim,

I really think that you'll be happy with that Onkyo. To answer your questions:

1. Yes, the optical connection. I couldn't remember which type of connection that player had (optical and/or coax), but I just checked the manual and it is an optical.

2. I would think that it would be kind of weird to be looking in front of you at the screen and to hear people talking behind you. I like to have the dialogue seem as if it's coming from the screen. That's why I'd think that speakers up front would be better than having them behind you. As an added bonus, you don't need to run wires across the room.

If that Onkyo is any where near as good as my three-year-old Pioneer at converting the digital bitstream for Dolby Digital into two-channel stereo, you should be able to make out the sounds just fine. I would expect it to be as good.

 

[Jim_Maine]

Jim,

I really think that you'll be happy with that Onkyo. To answer your questions:

1. Yes, the optical connection. I couldn't remember which type of connection that player had (optical and/or coax), but I just checked the manual and it is an optical.

2. I would think that it would be kind of weird to be looking in front of you at the screen and to hear people talking behind you. I like to have the dialogue seem as if it's coming from the screen. That's why I'd think that speakers up front would be better than having them behind you. As an added bonus, you don't need to run wires across the room.

If that Onkyo is any where near as good as my three-year-old Pioneer at converting the digital bitstream for Dolby Digital into two-channel stereo, you should be able to make out the sounds just fine. I would expect it to be as good.

Thanks Adam for everything... I will be following all of your suggestions..

Jim