Putting gear into walls, need to rebuild midQ kappa enclosure!

[Guiria]

I pulled the trigger on two titanic 12's yesterday. Hopefully I'll be cutting wood on the weekend of the 18th.

Good times...

 

[annunaki]

What will you be doing with them for enclosures?

I personally prefer the reference series drivers over the titanic but both are good.

 

[Guiria]

What will you be doing with them for enclosures?

I personally prefer the reference series drivers over the titanic but both are good.

They are going in small sealed boxes...about 1.5 net cubic feet. I am a little concerned however about how small the face of the sub box will be. Dimensions are 13x13x24 inches, according to manuf. specs the drivers will fit inside without hitting the sidewalls but it'll be close.

Almost makes me wonder if I should have bought 10" drivers instead and slot vented them...hmmm...

The RSS315 doesn't model as well in such a small box and it appears the titanic can handle boost a little better than the RS as well.

 

[annunaki]

Here is what I would suggest for parametric EQ. I believe you were planning to use 200 watts rms each correct?

Using 200 watts rms for simulated power here is what I would recommend.

Parametric EQ Band 1 - Center frequency of 30hz, +5db gain with a 'Q' of 1.0

Parametric EQ Band 2 - Center frequency of 52hz, -3.5db cut with a 'Q' of .75

This will net you an anechoic f3 of 27hz at 103.2db. and an f10 of 18hz.
+/-3db bandwidth from 27hz to 92hz.
+/- 1db bandwidth from 32hz to 77 hz!!

All of these simulations keep you at or below xmax through the entire bandwidth.

Overall, this should net you very nice overall performance. Doubling the power and surface area (having 2 subs) will gain you about 6db overall anechoic.

 

[Guiria]

Here is what I would suggest for parametric EQ. I believe you were planning to use 200 watts rms each correct?

Using 200 watts rms for simulated power here is what I would recommend.

Parametric EQ Band 1 - Center frequency of 30hz, +5db gain with a 'Q' of 1.0

Parametric EQ Band 2 - Center frequency of 52hz, -3.5db cut with a 'Q' of .75

This will net you an anechoic f3 of 27hz at 103.2db. and an f10 of 18hz.
+/-3db bandwidth from 27hz to 92hz.
+/- 1db bandwidth from 32hz to 77 hz!!

All of these simulations keep you at or below xmax through the entire bandwidth.

Overall, this should net you very nice overall performance. Doubling the power and surface area (having 2 subs) will gain you about 6db overall anechoic.

Yes 200 watts each...for now

I will keep in mind your EQ suggestions. I plan on using REW for some in room listening position response curves...I'll do some EQ tailoring to that for major peaks in response.

Overall it will be a good setup...nothing that digs super deep but I think It'll sound good.

 

[annunaki]

When you are setting things up initially, I would suggest these settings so you know what the sub does when set up for optimal flat response in your room. Then take your measurements.

From there, I would add in cuts as needed to balance response so you will not be exceeding xmax at any point.

Depending upon what you are using for an eq/processing you may also consider adding an infrasonic filter with a steep slope (4th order or so) to add in additional boost at lower frequencies, only if needed.

Either way, you should get pretty good overall performance even considering the small enclosure size.

 

[Guiria]

With the small boxes 13x13x24 I was planning on using a couple of braces to break up the 24" stretch of sidewall. I have 6 lb rockwool and can add as much as needed, I plan on 4" on the back wall and some staggered through out the bracing . I've seen the suggestions of stuffing a pillow in a box and was wondering if there is a benefit to that vs. using the rockwool I already have?

I'm just looking to optimize the small boxes...if there is a factor I can improve within the box restraint then I'm doing it!

It's possible that I may crossover as high as 120 hz to keep xmax in check on my other speakers when I'm cranking it.

 

[annunaki]

You will want to ensure you brace very heavily in that case (taking the x-over point as high as 120hz). The higher you run in frequency the more important bracing and rock wool become to avoid resonances.

You will want to use the rockwool on the rear panel, one of the vertical sides, and on either the top or bottom of the enclosure. This will help to eliminate internal reflections.

 

[Guiria]

order of operations

I was lucky enough to score an Onkyo TX-SR707 through this whole remodel and in regards to setting it up and running MultEQ my question is this:

Should I apply the the aforementioned filters on the BFD first, then run MultEQ, then if I see it necessary apply additional filters from the BFD?

Subs are installed, I have to finish the xover for my center channel and mount it this weekend and then I'll be setting up the new Onkyo.

I'm losing sleep over this stuff, what a dork.

 

[annunaki]

Get your sub's response flat first then run MultEq. This allows the eq to work more effectively and you will not have two eq systems counteracting each other since you are unable to see the amount of EQ applied once you run it with the Onkyo.

I have the same receiver.

 

[Guiria]

Get your sub's response flat first then run MultEq. This allows the eq to work more effectively and you will not have two eq systems counteracting each other since you are unable to see the amount of EQ applied once you run it with the Onkyo.

I have the same receiver.

OK I will EQ/boost with the BFD then run MultEq. Guess I better dust of the ol' REW equipment.

Just finished my center channel tonight, its going to be flush mounted underneath the TV this weekend.

I'm horrible at during the process pictures...I'll get some posted once my room is done. I'll try to remember to post a REW graph of in room response once I've got everything dialed in.

 

[Guiria]

I have the same receiver.

Not to derail the thread too much but how do you like your receiver? I wanted something that had hdmi 1.3 and atleast as much power as my Yamaha HTR-5960. I think I'm going to really like it.

 

[annunaki]

Not to derail the thread too much but how do you like your receiver? I wanted something that had hdmi 1.3 and atleast as much power as my Yamaha HTR-5960. I think I'm going to really like it.

I really enjoy it alot. Simple to use, good remote (for controlling other devices), great setup and ease of adjustment, the list goes on.

 

[Guiria]

remodel complete

Couple o pics of the finished remodel.
The curtains are my wifes stamp on the room.

Here the curtains are open. Any time the receiver is on the curtains are open for air flow and because my speakers sound like they are, well, behind curtains

Picture with one of the side grills off, the other side is identical to this one.

Close up with grill on.

Overall I'm pleased with how the project turned out. I'll get to posting some REW graphs of my in room bass response as well. One thing at a time

 

[TLS Guy]

Well done!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Great job! You got it done more quickly than I certainly could. Are you getting much/any resonance from the subs place on those shelves?

 

[Guiria]

Great job! You got it done more quickly than I certainly could. Are you getting much/any resonance from the subs place on those shelves?

Nothing audible. The sub itself has internal bracing. The shelf has cross bracing and the sub and the speaker are actually sitting on felt pads and not directly on the shelf.

 

[Guiria]

Impressions of the subs:

With my BFD and Audyssey engaged the response curve is pretty flat through out the subs frequency band. Compared to my MidQ kappa perfect design however, this system lacks punch or slam. Take for example the THX scene with the world, rain, thunder and lightning. When the world exploded you could feel the tight explosion better with the MidQ design. You still here the bass with the sealed Titanic's but the impact is not as strong.

My guess would be that it is because the amp power is only 200 watts per sub vs. 600 watts to the Kappa MidQ and therefore the subs lack dynamic range, amp limited.

 

[Guiria]

I'm considering taking over the left cubby space for subwoofer duty and seeing that I have 2 12" Titanics I thought making a dual 12" ported box may be the way to go for best performance given my current components. With that in mind, in WinISD two 12" Titanics tuned to 20 Hz in a 7.5 cubic foot box yields the best performance.

Are their performance compromises for building your ports outside of the box vs. inside? Some of my design ideas involve ports on the outside.