PSB vs B&W

[cms3333]

Hello,

I am new to A/V and I am starting to work on my own home setup. I currently have a 52” Samsung (A650), the Samsung Blu-Ray (BD-P3600), and recently picked up a Denon AVR-1910. Now I need to pick out some speakers. I am going to start with a 3.0 system for a few reasons. First, my budget is relatively small/tight. Second, I’m still in an apartment and a sub is just out of the question given the thin walls and old neighbors.

Two of the setups that I have really liked have been the PSB Image T5 towers with the Image C5 center and the B&W 684 towers with the HTM62 center. There is only a difference of about $350 between the two setups where I am looking.

I have tried to find some reviews on the T5s but haven’t been able to find much in the way of articles or in forums. I would like to see some more ingo on them. My hold up with the 684s is it seemed like I need to get a sub to fill in the bottom end (more so than with the T5s) and they are also a little more than I want to spend. I am looking to get a system that I can build on for a long time and don’t know if the PSBs are the way to go in that area. Would they be able to fill a larger room once I moved into a house?

Which would be better to build a long term system off of? What would you recommend? What would work best the Denon 1910 that I will be using?

All opinions welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[JerryLove]

All opinions welcome. Thanks in advance!

I like turtles

 

[Cristofori]

Not having heard the newer models, I've owned both of the previous B&W 600 series and PSB Image Monitor/Bookshelves.

Both were fine speakers, but I have to say the B&W's had the edge in overall SQ with music. But, the differences may not justify the extra cost involved, especially for HT use. You can also buy the PSB's online, while the B&W's are only sold through A/V dealers, meaning you would have to pay the hefty taxes along with the extra price, unless you were able to get a really good deal somewhere.

Then there's the resale value. The B&W's should retain much of there value, and you may be able to unload them easier if you decide to sell them later on down the line. B&W's service and warranties may also be superior.

Also, the new B&W 600 series are now made in China, while the PSB's are still made in Canada (I think). The cheap labor savings B&W now enjoys have not been passed down to us, B&W prices are higher then ever. Something else to consider.

 

[dapack69]

Also, the new B&W 600 series are now made in China,

Is there anything not being made in china?

 

[3db]

You need to sit down and audition for yourself to see what sounds right for you. I've never been a fan of the B&W 600 series speakers but thats just me. I also own the previous generation Image series speakers and I really enjoy their imaging and revealing soundtsage, tonal accurcay, tight bass, lifelike mids and detailed revealing highs without the brightness . I haveb't heard the new model of which your looking at but I heard they're even more refined in sound than what I own now.


Just a note PSB took 7 awards from Absolute Sound's editors in 5 categories...more than any other speaker brand. B&W was the next closest with 3 awards in 3 categories.

Under $500 Alpha B1
$500-$1000 Imagine B, Image T6
$1500-$2000 Synchrony Two B, Imagine T
$2000-$3000 Synchrony Two
Subwoofers SubSeries 5i

Like I say, listen for yourself and what ever sounds best to you is the right speaker for you. I would also audition other speakers if you can because you may find something you like even better than the PSB or B&W.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2
channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then amovie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioningthe center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick adifficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can
mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendationsbased on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning.Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.

 

[cms3333]

I think even the PSBs are made in China now also, but it seems like the savings are being passed down a little better.

I have been to a few places and listened to multiple different speakers. Being in south eastern Kansas, there aren’t many options. I’ve went to a few specialty shops and then the standard Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics, etc. These visits have been spread out over a couple months so some of this is being pulled from deep memory. Here is what I have come up with so far…

Visit 1:
Klipsch WF-35 – I originally like these. Good bass, nothing seemed over powering. I went back after the last visit and it just didn’t seem as detailed as the others and cost more.

There was some other stuff here. I don’t remember makes or model numbers but I wasn’t impressed with much. I know there was some Def Tech stuff that I liked but was out of my range.

Visit 2:
Klipsch RF-62 – Wasn’t a big fan of these. The highs seemed very bright and just didn’t care for the overall sound quality.

Paradigm Monitor 9s – I liked these speakers. Compared to the RF-62s they were great. It just felt like something was missing when I was listening to them. I can’t remember what it was (lack of bass, not enough detail) but I thought they were OK.

Visit 3:
Room 1,
Kef iQ70 – I was split on these. They had a nice, clean sound. Bass was a little weird. It was nonexistent on some tracks and others it was great. I didn’t think these were as clear on the highs as the other 2 in this room.

PSB T5 – These were nice. Good through the entire range. They had enough bass that I wouldn’t immediately need a sub in my small apartment. They did well on a large range of music (as did all of the speakers on this visit).

Def Tech BP7006 – These were nice too. A lot more bass than the others. Mids were good. Highs just didn’t seem as defined as the PSBs.

Room 2,
B&W 683 – Given the price on these I was only so-so on them. The mids seemed to be a little overpowering on these.

B&W 684 – I also liked these. The mids were nice. Everything was well defined. Highs were almost a little bright at times but I think that could have been the level we were listening at that time. Wish there was a little more bass but that could be solved with a sub later on.

I didn’t get the type of amp used on each. I think the Klipsch and Paradigms were on a larger Yamaha. Then the Def Tec, PSB, and Kef were on the same receiver but I don’t know what it was. The B&Ws are the same way. The last visit was a specialty place and probably don’t remember the brand since it wasn’t a name I recognized. I guess that’s part of being new. I hope this gives a little more insight into my search.

 

[3db]

I think even the PSBs are made in China now also, but it seems like the savings are being passed down a little better.

I have been to a few places and listened to multiple different speakers. Being in south eastern Kansas, there aren’t many options. I’ve went to a few specialty shops and then the standard Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics, etc. These visits have been spread out over a couple months so some of this is being pulled from deep memory. Here is what I have come up with so far…

Visit 1:
Klipsch WF-35 – I originally like these. Good bass, nothing seemed over powering. I went back after the last visit and it just didn’t seem as detailed as the others and cost more.

There was some other stuff here. I don’t remember makes or model numbers but I wasn’t impressed with much. I know there was some Def Tech stuff that I liked but was out of my range.

Visit 2:
Klipsch RF-62 – Wasn’t a big fan of these. The highs seemed very bright and just didn’t care for the overall sound quality.

Paradigm Monitor 9s – I liked these speakers. Compared to the RF-62s they were great. It just felt like something was missing when I was listening to them. I can’t remember what it was (lack of bass, not enough detail) but I thought they were OK.

Visit 3:
Room 1,
Kef iQ70 – I was split on these. They had a nice, clean sound. Bass was a little weird. It was nonexistent on some tracks and others it was great. I didn’t think these were as clear on the highs as the other 2 in this room.

PSB T5 – These were nice. Good through the entire range. They had enough bass that I wouldn’t immediately need a sub in my small apartment. They did well on a large range of music (as did all of the speakers on this visit).

Def Tech BP7006 – These were nice too. A lot more bass than the others. Mids were good. Highs just didn’t seem as defined as the PSBs.

Room 2,
B&W 683 – Given the price on these I was only so-so on them. The mids seemed to be a little overpowering on these.

B&W 684 – I also liked these. The mids were nice. Everything was well defined. Highs were almost a little bright at times but I think that could have been the level we were listening at that time. Wish there was a little more bass but that could be solved with a sub later on.

I didn’t get the type of amp used on each. I think the Klipsch and Paradigms were on a larger Yamaha. Then the Def Tec, PSB, and Kef were on the same receiver but I don’t know what it was. The B&Ws are the same way. The last visit was a specialty place and probably don’t remember the brand since it wasn’t a name I recognized. I guess that’s part of being new. I hope this gives a little more insight into my search.

Cabinets are made in China but the drivers and cross-overs are installed in Canada. Good job on your search. Let us know what you end up with.

 

[cms3333]

Thanks. Has anyone listened to both of these? I would like to hear what they have to say. Actually, I would like to hear what any one that has listened to the T5s for an extended period has thought. I just can't find much on them.

 

[Cristofori]

Is there anything not being made in china?

Yes, all the B&W models up from the 600 series, are still made in the U.K. (I think). There are some good affordable speakers still being made in Canada as well (I think).

Of course, the very best of all things audio always has been and still is being made in the USA, Europe, & Japan. Although what was once of the same quality and somewhat affordable as little as ten or more years ago is now out of reach for many of us.

One day though, these companies may start to realize few here can afford to buy their overpriced stuff anymore, and as the Chinese become more and more like us, affluent and demanding things like fair wages, benefits, etc., they will simply move on to the next source of 2nd or 3rd world ultra cheap labor and set up camp. Until someday, they may actually get around back to us once again, if we are still around that is.

Then we will all be talking about how great the stuff made in China actually was, with only it's minor quality issues and occasional counterfeit parts, compared to the problems from Bangladesh, India, etc.

So start saving all your good components now, you may regret it later, as I have.

I wish I kept my old USA made Carver/Infinity stuff, my Japanese Rotel pre-amp and my Japanese Sony ES CD player from 13 or so years back.

It was the best stuff I ever had!

 

[Cristofori]

Thanks. Has anyone listened to both of these? I would like to hear what they have to say. Actually, I would like to hear what any one that has listened to the T5s for an extended period has thought. I just can't find much on them.

Good luck in finding a dealer that carries and auditions PSB's if you haven't already. Ironically, even dealers who carry NAD (and there are many) don't seem to bother much with PSB's, which are affiliated with NAD!

Even in a big city like Dallas, TX, where I lived five years back, there was only one dealer who carried them and he was mostly just a professional HT installer, not a general dealer. He let me audition some PSB Image B3 bookshelves he used in his HT set ups. They sounded very good for the money, so I bought them.

Finding B&W's is easy by comparison, as there are many dealers who carry them. My suggestion is if you are hooked on PSB's and can't find a dealer, buy them from an online source were you can return them easily if they don't work out.

Also, if you find a really great HI-FI shop/dealer who will work with you and you really like what they offer, buy from them! Don't use them for auditioning purposes and then turn around and buy online just so you can save $20-$50 on taxes or whatever. Sadly, places like this are going under because of people doing just this kind of thing and because of low-balling prices form online competitors.

But those guys won't be there for you when you need a cartridge mounted and balanced on a tone arm, or spade plugs soldiered onto your nice speaker cables, or for decent trade ins on old equipment, etc. A good Hi-FI shop can be really helpful and of great service later on down the line in more ways then one.

 

[cms3333]

Good luck in finding a dealer that carries and auditions PSB's if you haven't already. Ironically, even dealers who carry NAD (and there are many) don't seem to bother much with PSB's, which are affiliated with NAD!

Even in a big city like Dallas, TX, where I lived five years back, there was only one dealer who carried them and he was mostly just a professional HT installer, not a general dealer. He let me audition some PSB Image B3 bookshelves he used in his HT set ups. They sounded very good for the money, so I bought them.

Finding B&W's is easy by comparison, as there are many dealers who carry them. My suggestion is if you are hooked on PSB's and can't find a dealer, buy them from an online source were you can return them easily if they don't work out.

I wouldn't say that I am hooked on PSB's. I just liked the sound from them and was a little concerned since I could find next to nothing on them. It's good to hear that the people that have owned them have liked them. I haven't really heard anything negative yet.

I went up to Lawrence, KS last weekend (visit #3 in one of my previous posts) and listed to some different stuff. The store had a bunch of listening rooms (11 I think they said). I would say that it was a pretty professional store but that is my newbie opinion. That is were I heard the PSBs. Overall the PSB T5s and B&W 684s were my favorite.

I'm just trying to get a feel of if I'm sacrificing sound quality by going with the cheaper PSBs or if it would be better to fork up the extra cash and go with B&Ws.

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, FWIW, I preferred the older PSB Image over the older B&W 60x series, however I listened to them in completely different rooms. I haven't heard the newer Images, nor the 68x series. I believe there have been many improvements or changes to both versions. What I remember about the 68x version is that they use a 1st order xover, which is hard to pull off and hopefully will have benefits in phase, but that your offaxis response will suffer. If your seating is very wide angled, I might go with the PSB in a tossup. Just trust your ears, anyways, it's part of the fun.

 

[3db]

I wouldn't say that I am hooked on PSB's. I just liked the sound from them and was a little concerned since I could find next to nothing on them. It's good to hear that the people that have owned them have liked them. I haven't really heard anything negative yet.

I went up to Lawrence, KS last weekend (visit #3 in one of my previous posts) and listed to some different stuff. The store had a bunch of listening rooms (11 I think they said). I would say that it was a pretty professional store but that is my newbie opinion. That is were I heard the PSBs. Overall the PSB T5s and B&W 684s were my favorite.

I'm just trying to get a feel of if I'm sacrificing sound quality by going with the cheaper PSBs or if it would be better to fork up the extra cash and go with B&Ws.

As good a sound as the B&W for less money? Where's the sacrifice?

 

[cms3333]

Will the Denon AVR-1910 have any problem driving the PSBs? They are rated at 6 ohms (4 ohms min) and the 1910 is rated for a min of 6 (if i remember right). Any problems going to crop up from this?

 

[jostenmeat]

Will the Denon AVR-1910 have any problem driving the PSBs? They are rated at 6 ohms (4 ohms min) and the 1910 is rated for a min of 6 (if i remember right). Any problems going to crop up from this?

Honestly, and I know it sounds stupidly simply, it will depend on how hard you will want to drive them. Because of this unknown factor, I recommend that you make sure any receiver you purchase has preouts. You will most likely be satisfied with just the receiver, but there is still that chance the receiver just can't do enough, depending. FWIW, the speakers do have good sensitivity.

 

[3db]

Will the Denon AVR-1910 have any problem driving the PSBs? They are rated at 6 ohms (4 ohms min) and the 1910 is rated for a min of 6 (if i remember right). Any problems going to crop up from this?

It depends on how big your room is and how loud you want to play them. I had a Technics SA-DX-940 receiver (hardly a power house) drive the entire suite of PSB Image series in a room 12x 15 with a 7' drop ceiling and it drove them to more than comfortable loudness levels without it going into protection mode.

The T45s are failry efficient and it doesn't take much power to make them play loud. But again, loud is relative to you and the room size you're trying to fill .

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Not sure where the OP lives but there is a new pair of T-55's for $600 and a used pair for $350 listed on Craig's list here in DFW TX.

 

[cms3333]

I still live in an apartment so I shouldn't have to drive them very hard at all to fill this little space. If this receiver isn't doesn't have enough power to fill a larger room, once I move into a house, then that just means I get to go shopping for new toys. Haha

I think I'll be getting a brand new pair of T5s for just a little more than that.

 

[3db]

I still live in an apartment so I shouldn't have to drive them very hard at all to fill this little space. If this receiver isn't doesn't have enough power to fill a larger room, once I move into a house, then that just means I get to go shopping for new toys. Haha

I think I'll be getting a brand new pair of T5s for just a little more than that.

Now you're thinking . Seriously, that Denon should be able to drive them to good loudness levels to even a mid size room ...sssshhh..you don't need to tell your other half that ltid bit of information.

 

[cms3333]

Well I finally was able to go get my speakers a couple weekends ago. I have had time sit down with them and listen over the last coupe weeks and I am very pleased. I went with the T5 towers and a C5 center. They sound great. Thanks for all the help.