proper volume/sub settings...

[mulester7]

who wants 'woolly' sound?

.....sheep?.....

 

[Buckle-meister]

.....sheep?.....

That's pretty good. Like that one

Regards

 

[mulester7]

.....Buckle-Meister, Glasgow is special to me....I've never been there, but my parents visited Glasgow and other cities in Scotland in the late 60's....I've viewed many slides over and over that my Mother took....I remember double-decker red buses and amazing floral arrangements in what appeared to be a town square....hats off to your location, Sir....and isn't this internet mind-bogling?.....

 

[MDS]

I think people are getting confused everytime someone comments in this issue. Can someone explain it in plain English. Example: receiver x over set to 60hz, then set your sub x over to 120hz. We're all learning from this forum.

When you use the xover in the receiver, you want to either:

a) disable the sub's internal xover. Some subs have a switch to flip that disables the internal xover. Some have a specific input, often labeled 'LFE' (JBL for example), that automatically disables the internal xover when you use that connection.

or

b). Turn the xover on the SUB all the way up.

All of the reasons for this have been given in this thread, but then made confusing. First and foremost, xovers are not brick walls that cut off exactly at the set frequency - they roll-off at a rate determined by the 'slope' of the xover. The typical low pass filter (LPF) in the receiver is 24 dB/octave which means that it attenuates the signal by 24 dB for every octave. If the receiver xover is set to 60 Hz, 120 Hz (one octave above 60 Hz) frequencies will still get to the sub - they will just be reduced in amplitude by 24 dB.

The typical high pass filter (HPF) in the receiver is 12 dB/octave. With the receiver xover at 60 Hz, 30 Hz (one octave below 60 Hz) will still get to the mains, but will be reduced in amplitude by 12 dB.

So the goal of setting the xover frequency is to achieve a smooth 'hand-off' if you will between the sub and the mains. If you can disable the sub's internal xover, then the only thing you have to do is choose a suitable xover setting on the receiver. The rule of thumb is 1/2 to 1 octave above the F3 point of the least capable speaker - definitely NOT below that point. If your mains are capable of +/- 3 dB at 58 Hz (its F3 point) then your choice for xover freqency really should be 80-90 Hz.

If you can't disable the internal xover on the sub, then you want to set it as high as possible to get it out the way - so it doesn't filter the signal as well as the receiver. As long as it's at least one octave above the receiver's xover, it will be ok, but setting it all the way up (which is often 150 Hz) will make damn sure it doesn't interfere. Under no circumstance should you set it below the receiver's xover - unless you want to discard all frequencies between the receiver's xover and the sub's. [Technically, they aren't totally eliminated - back to the slope - they are attenuated greatly, leaving a big hole in the frequency response].

Hope that covers all the issues.

 

[puertorro]

Ok, that sounds better. So what you mean is that whatever speaker/channel have the lowest low f/r, that's the reference point to set the receiver's xover. Then, if the center channel has 58hz, your receiver's xover should be 80-90 and the sub xover all the way up.

 

[MDS]

You've got it.

 

[Buckle-meister]

.....Buckle-Meister, Glasgow is special to me....I've never been there, but my parents visited Glasgow and other cities in Scotland in the late 60's....I've viewed many slides over and over that my Mother took....I remember double-decker red buses and amazing floral arrangements in what appeared to be a town square....hats off to your location, Sir....and isn't this internet mind-bogling?.....

Alas, the red double-deckers are no longer around (London's probably the only place with red ones now). As for the town square, you are almost certainly referring to George square (less than a 10 minute walk from where I stay ).

It cannot be disputed that Glasgow isn't as pretty as other cities in Scotland (ask your folks what city they liked most; I'll be amazed if they don't say Edinburgh), but it more than makes up for it in the quality of its residents; a more friendly and helpfull folk you will not meet. And their sense of humour? Well, lets just say that its almost as dry as your own. Almost.

And yes, it does indeed boggle the mind.

Kind regards

 

[caseyh]

The subwoofer's crossover and the receiver's crossover work independently of each other. Enabling the receiver's crossover DOES NOT disable the subwoofer's crossover. Likewise, enabling the subwoofer's crossover DOES NOT disable the receiver's crossover. However, using both crossovers can potentially introduce some interference in the signal or cause bands of frequency to be lost, as has been discussed in the above posts. My recommendation would be to set the receiver's crossover for the subwoofer/LFE channel at 80hz and turn the subwoofer's crossover all the way up or flip the switch to defeat it, whatever may be the case with your subwoofer. I hope this helps.

 

[mulester7]

.....well, I've just run into a possible roadblock concerning the 10 inch sub I was most strongly considering....I'm gathering info concerning subs and their internal crossovers....

.....MDS, your post was publishing house quality, but not once, did you mention what you heard, from your system, when you, did this or that.....

.....I believe the issue here may be, "what is overkill in both theory and application?".....MDS, is the "automatically applied" slope of roll-off from the receiver for a sub signal always -24 db's?.....

 

[mulester7]

Alas, the red double-deckers are no longer around (London's probably the only place with red ones now). As for the town square, you are almost certainly referring to George square (less than a 10 minute walk from where I stay ).

It cannot be disputed that Glasgow isn't as pretty as other cities in Scotland (ask your folks what city they liked most; I'll be amazed if they don't say Edinburgh), but it more than makes up for it in the quality of its residents; a more friendly and helpfull folk you will not meet. And their sense of humour? Well, lets just say that its almost as dry as your own. Almost.

And yes, it does indeed boggle the mind.

Kind regards

.....delightful response, Buckle-Meister....my parents were members of an all-star Baptist Church Choir, chosen from 3 or 4 churches where the guy who organized the trip/effort had been the music director....the choir members, about 100, stayed in the homes of the people who went to the churches the choir sang in each evening, as the choir went from country to country by bus....costs were kept low, as the choir spent 3 or 4 days each, in England, Scotland, and Switzerland....Buckle, I thought the town I heard my parents mention was Edinborough, was it burg?....and, was it in Scotland where the certain tree was called the, "monkey puzzle?".....I have three trays of slides I may pull out tomorrow and watch again....probably will.....

 

[mulester7]

If you can't disable the internal xover on the sub, then you want to set it as high as possible to get it out the way - so it doesn't filter the signal as well as the receiver. As long as it's at least one octave above the receiver's xover, it will be ok, but setting it all the way up (which is often 150 Hz) will make damn sure it doesn't interfere. Under no circumstance should you set it below the receiver's xover - unless you want to discard all frequencies between the receiver's xover and the sub's. [Technically, they aren't totally eliminated - back to the slope - they are attenuated greatly, leaving a big hole in the frequency response].

Hope that covers all the issues.

.....and this is where I will never use your methods of what you've read somewhere, or someone has told you, MDS.....you cut the sub's signal at the receiver to either 60 or 80, run the cut of the sub to higher, and you have no choice other than 60 or 80....

.....striving to attain both roll-offs is probably a mute point....either end having at least -18 db of slope is probably sufficient, but since this site is dedicated to "bang for the well-invested buck", and "the ears decide", I will go for audiophile-overkill, that doesn't cost a thin dime, EVERY time.....

.....I'm done with this.....I want to be able to choose frequency cuts at sub-level more discriminately than every 20....it was mentioned tuning both cuts to the same hz count could bring noise and interference....am I on Candid Camera?.......

 

[Buckle-meister]

...I thought the town I heard my parents mention was Edinborough, was it burg?

Shame on you Mulester7! Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland!

As for the pronounciation, Americans (I'm guessing thats where you are from (why don't folk put their location in their profile?)) always pronounce it Edin-bow-row, when it should be Edin-buh-ruh.

...and, was it in Scotland where the certain tree was called the, "monkey puzzle"?...

There is a species of tree called the monkey-puzzle tree (so named because it was believed it would confuse even a monkey trying to climb it), but it is native to Chile. That said, your memory probably serves you well; although it is very rare to see them (they prefer warmer climates), there are monkey puzzle trees in Scotland. I myself have only ever seen them once or twice, and only ever standing alone. They are certainly strange looking trees, but I rather like them.

Regards

 

[mulester7]

Shame on you Mulester7! Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland!

.....(now I've done it)....(hacked off a guy in a skirt carrying bagpipes/weapons).....

.....Buckle, I've tried to put a location in my top right corner, and ain't got a clue....truth....

.....your posts are special to me....you've got some savvy in this audio/video hobby/thing....and stuff in general........

 

[MDS]

.....and this is where I will never use your methods of what you've read somewhere, or someone has told you, MDS.....you cut the sub's signal at the receiver to either 60 or 80, run the cut of the sub to higher, and you have no choice other than 60 or 80....

Huh? I have no idea what you are trying to say.

All of your equipment, including the sub and receiver, is designed according to the 'theory' you so readily dismiss. People want to learn how things really work so they can better understand the system and get the best possible sound out of it. If you prefer to just twist knobs until you think it 'sounds good', be my guest.

 

[mulester7]

Huh? I have no idea what you are trying to say.

All of your equipment, including the sub and receiver, is designed according to the 'theory' you so readily dismiss. People want to learn how things really work so they can better understand the system and get the best possible sound out of it. If you prefer to just twist knobs until you think it 'sounds good', be my guest.

.....MDS, I will CERTAINLY twist knobs until I think it "sounds best", you bet....again, your post was very good, and imo publishing house quality....I just don't ascribe to meters, scopes, or what I read, compared to twisting knobs, and never will.....

 

[Buckle-meister]

...Buckle...

...is my Surname.

I've tried to put a location in my top right corner, and ain't got a clue....truth....

Ok:

1. Click on your name (on any posting of your own).
2. Click 'View Public Profile'
3. Click 'User CP' (top left)
4. Click 'Edit Profile'
5. Scroll down, and in 'Additional Information' you will be able to enter your 'Location'

Voilla!

In additon, if you do step 2 for someone else, you can see their profile. Unfortunately, few fill the information in.

Pity

Regards

 

[mulester7]

.....thanks, Buckle-Meister....I think me and you could hang out....I may catch a boat tomorrow.....

 

[Buckle-meister]

You are always welcome.

 

[mulester7]

You are always welcome.

.....figured as much....



.....ain't gonna' live on this computer like usual today....have done runned out of issues anywho.....Gentlemen, when I grow up, I have hopes of becoming a Hillbilly Audiophile....this type of audiophile, amazes his friends with the sound he has, judged on the money he sunk....what did he do?....he got off his butt, built what he could, and from then on, let his ears decide, tweaking the crap, out of EVERYTHING....AND....it didn't hurt he was into it....never stiff your obligations....

.....out for awhile....will read....may jump in and throw pies, haha......