Proper layout for 7.2.4 system?

[Scott McDonald]

I have a system consisting of:

• Pioneer Elite SCLX701 Receiver
• Onkyo 2 channel (75w x2) for powering addition channels 10 and 11 since pioneer only powers 9 channels)
• Definitive technology BP8060's w/ A90 Atmos caps as fronts
• Definitive technology mythos 10 for center
• Definitive technology BP8040's currently as rears
• Two definitive technology supercube 8000's (receiver has two sub pre-outs)
• For final channels not currently "upgraded" or high end:
  • Two Klipsch bookshelf speakers as sides (proper name --> surrounds?)
  • Two onkyo Atmos speakers on top of rears

The onkyo amp is currently powering the two bp8040's (seems when using an external amp for the additional two channels this pioneer receiver will only allow it to be used on the rears).

The Atmos front and rear are all ceiling firing and reflect sound off ceiling back to listening area.

The receiver will only let me configure speakers as large sides and small rears; it will not let me select any rears if I select small sides. But I can select large sides and large rears.

I'm replacing my Klipsch "sides" asap but not sure what to replace with? I was considering another set of bp8040's for four total, sides and rears since it will allow large sides and rears, but with the receiver insisting if the sides are small I can't have rears, I'm a bit baffled as to what to do???

Is it a more "proper" or "sound design" to use small rears and larger sides as the receiver limitations seem to suggest?

Or, should I do another set of bp8040's to replace those sides so I have large for both sides and rears, or should I move the bp8040's to the sides and get say a pair of sr8040's or sr8060's for the rear which would then be powered by the onkyo 2 channel instead giving the bp8040's more clean power from the pioneer?

For the Atmos speakers, were doing a remodel next year at which time I'll ditch the a90's and cheapy onkyo Dolby Atmos speakers and install in ceiling Atmos speakers then.

Any/all suggestions / explanations appreciated!

Scott

 

[lovinthehd]

The avr insists some speakers are set to large (via MCACC?) and will not allow you to simply change it to small? I've not heard of that before...

 

[Scott McDonald]

The avr insists some speakers are set to large (via MCACC?) and will not allow you to simply change it to small? I've not heard of that before...

If the surrounds are small, it won't let me set any speakers for rear. If they are large, then I can select large or small for rears.

I have no idea why, I just know when small is selected in crossover settings for the side/surrounds it immediately greys out / disables any selection from being made for rears.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm not up on all the atmos avrs as I'm not going that direction so far....but looking at the manual it indicates default setting in the section titled Crossover (pg 19/20 of the advanced manual pdf) is small for front, center, height 1, height 2, surround, surround back. It does have a note to make sure your speaker configuration is set properly if running into grayed-out options. What are the settings for large/small/crossover/speaker configuration you've got now?

 

[Scott McDonald]

I'm not up on all the atmos avrs as I'm not going that direction so far....but looking at the manual it indicates default setting in the section titled Crossover (pg 19/20 of the advanced manual pdf) is small for front, center, height 1, height 2, surround, surround back. It does have a note to make sure your speaker configuration is set properly if running into grayed-out options. What are the settings for large/small/crossover/speaker configuration you've got now?

See attached

 

[lovinthehd]

While I see some speakers if set to small will force others be set to small, don't see anything about that otherwise. Doesn't look like large is grayed out on your photo, tho. Why do you have larger speakers as rear surrounds than surrounds? Usually you'd do it the other way.

Have you tried setting all to small and not doing the double bass thing? While I'd like better subs than your DTs, that's the usual configuration when using subs....

You do have it setup for the 7.2.4 (edit: manual says 7.1.4) choice in speaker channel configuration, too?

 

[Scott McDonald]

Why do you have larger speakers as rear surrounds than surrounds? Usually you'd do it the other way.

That's kind of exactly my question, should I have smaller surrounds/sides and larger rears, or the opposite, larger sides/surrounds and smaller rears? And...why on either way?

It wasn't greyed out there as I have them set current where it's not greyed out. If I set the sides/surrounds to small it would grey out the rears from being able to select anything at all.

 

[lovinthehd]

Still haven't confirmed what you have the speaker channel configuration set to (pg 17). Is it set to 7.1.4?

Surrounds have more content than back/rear surrounds, so generally you put better speakers as surrounds.

 

[Scott McDonald]

Still haven't confirmed what you have the speaker channel configuration set to (pg 17). Is it set to 7.1.4?

Surrounds have more content than back/rear surrounds, so generally you put better speakers as surrounds.

Ahh, 7.2.4 (two subs)

That's what I wasn't sure of. Seemed to me like sides would just be sort of effects fill and rears would be more prominent, but sounds like it's the opposite of what I thought? And oddly enough I can't seem to find any information on best rules of practice on that online? Speaker placement, tuning etc everywhere, but nothing on size/type etc for those positions.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Here’s a little bit of visual aid. IMO even sides and rears should be similar to each other. Surround sound isn’t just little effects here and there in each channel/speaker. IMO they should be looked at similar to the fronts in that position and toe/angle contribute to the overall imaging and cohesive of the sound field. In Atmos especially since all of the bed channels tie into the ceiling speakers to create a 3d audio environment where sounds move through the room in space. It’s not just helicopters and rain. Imagine the center image created by two speakers, of a singer standing in your room, Times 100. That’s atmos, so to me it’s important to not just put any old thing in place for surround duty as is a common prescription.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ahh, 7.2.4 (two subs)

That's what I wasn't sure of. Seemed to me like sides would just be sort of effects fill and rears would be more prominent, but sounds like it's the opposite of what I thought? And oddly enough I can't seem to find any information on best rules of practice on that online? Speaker placement, tuning etc everywhere, but nothing on size/type etc for those positions.

There's suggestions like William posted available at both Dolby and DTS sites...while many people refer to surrounds in a 5.1 setup as rears (or even place the speakers as if they are), they are intended to be placed to the sides, perhaps slightly behind and above, but still to the sides primarily....some connect their surround speakers to the rear surrounds on a 7.1 avr when all they have are 5 speakers due this assumption as well and then wonder why the avr isn't working correctly.

Surrounds will definitely be utilized more than the rear surrounds, not that much material is actually 7.1 in any case, the majority is still 5.1 and you're simply going to be matrixing information into the rear surrounds if that's your source.

Can get confusing with speaker/avr format. There's only a single mono .1 channel still but an avr may have two sub pre-outs; yet not many avrs can separately process for delay and level the two subs either, it's effectively a simple split of the signal in many avrs with two sub preouts (something you can do easily with a y-cable). The number of overhead speakers has more to do with available processing/amplification in an avr than the limits of these immersion technologies for speakers/positions.