Proper L/C/R setup

[TankTop5]

Getting ready to purchase my first proper front setup and figured I’d get a little feedback before spending serious money. Listened to quite a few speakers and the only ones I can’t listen to are the Ascend Sierra’s. I was leaning that way but I had RBH SV-61R and I didn’t love them with the ribbon tweeter. I knew they were great but I think I enjoy a speaker with a little more character in the voicing and ribbons are just too neutral, dumb I know but we all have our preferences. Then I was considering the JBL HDI 3800 plus center but again they are voiced extremely neutral and kinda boring and for their size I feel they lack bass. Finally decided to listen to the Paradigm Founders as there’s a local shop I’ve done a bit of business with and really like them as a solid local mom and pop shop. The Founders really grabbed me as they sounded more “fun” but I believe they have a little more energy in the bass and treble with a little dip in the mids, something Audessey or Dirac can handle if I choose to in the future.

Anyway, pretty sure I’m settling on the Paradigm Founders 100F and matching 90C. Anyone see anything glaringly wrong with that decision? I know there are a tone of choices in this price range but this seems solid to me, maybe a bit overkill for my space but I think they’ll fit easily in a larger space in the future.

 

[TLS Guy]

Getting ready to purchase my first proper front setup and figured I’d get a little feedback before spending serious money. Listened to quite a few speakers and the only ones I can’t listen to are the Ascend Sierra’s. I was leaning that way but I had RBH SV-61R and I didn’t love them with the ribbon tweeter. I knew they were great but I think I enjoy a speaker with a little more character in the voicing and ribbons are just too neutral, dumb I know but we all have our preferences. Then I was considering the JBL HDI 3800 plus center but again they are voiced extremely neutral and kinda boring and for their size I feel they lack bass. Finally decided to listen to the Paradigm Founders as there’s a local shop I’ve done a bit of business with and really like them as a solid local mom and pop shop. The Founders really grabbed me as they sounded more “fun” but I believe they have a little more energy in the bass and treble with a little dip in the mids, something Audessey or Dirac can handle if I choose to in the future.

Anyway, pretty sure I’m settling on the Paradigm Founders 100F and matching 90C. Anyone see anything glaringly wrong with that decision? I know there are a tone of choices in this price range but this seems solid to me, maybe a bit overkill for my space but I think they’ll fit easily in a larger space in the future.

You don't have to buy lousy speakers to spoil your sound, you can DIY it with an Eq! You just can't go wrong with accurate neutral speakers, with good dispersion. A bad speaker is a permanent tone control and something you don't want.

Usually inaccurate speakers also have a louse dispersion pattern and you won't correct that with a tone control.

Purposely looking for defective speakers, sounds absolutely bonkers to me.

Is there something "in the air" this morning? That is the second "nutty" post I have responded to before breakfast!

 

[TankTop5]

You don't have to buy lousy speakers to spoil your sound, you can DIY it with an Eq! You just can't go wrong with accurate neutral speakers, with good dispersion. A bad speaker is a permanent tone control and something you don't want.

Usually inaccurate speakers also have a louse dispersion pattern and you won't correct that with a tone control.

Purposely looking for defective speakers, sounds absolutely bonkers to me.

Is there something "in the air" this morning? That is the second "nutty" post I have responded to before breakfast!

The dispersion pattern on the Paradigms is great per measurements of the 120 and 70, they just have a little dip in the mids. The 70 LCR has some poor measurements but the 100F is pretty solid and without being able to demo I’m hoping the 90 center makes up a lot of this.

Paradigm Founder 100F and 70LCR Loudspeakers Review

The Paradigm's Founder 100F 3-way towers and 70LCR speakers use a slew of new technologies to push the loudspeaker game forward. Read our review to see how they sounded and performed with measurements.

www.audioholics.com

 

[everettT]

The dispersion pattern on the Paradigms is great per measurements of the 120 and 70, they just have a little dip in the mids. The 70 LCR has some poor measurements but the 100F is pretty solid and without being able to demo I’m hoping the 90 center makes up a lot of this.

Paradigm Founder 100F and 70LCR Loudspeakers Review

The Paradigm's Founder 100F 3-way towers and 70LCR speakers use a slew of new technologies to push the loudspeaker game forward. Read our review to see how they sounded and performed with measurements.

www.audioholics.com

Are you paying full retail? What are you planning on for the center?

 

[TankTop5]

Are you paying full retail? What are you planning on for the center?

I was going to go with the matching Founder 90C with the 100F. Starting to believe a center channel is the same a subs, go big or go home

 

[j_garcia]

It is fine that you have a preference for that sound. I started out with Paradigms too and found after a few years and a lot of listening to more speakers, that sound eventually became fatiguing was not so much to my liking with music and I sold them. That lively sound from the dip in the mids is great for movies and loud music, but critical listening with music tends to be more about super smooth mids to me, which means a neutral speaker. Everyone hears differently, so go with what you like.

 

[ski2xblack]

Don't chalk up your dislike of the RBH to the ribbon tweet specifically. Their measurements indicate the RBH have nailed the midrange but do reveal a bit of a step down in response up above 6k, so the treble may be a bit reticent, particularly compared to the Paradigms. Other speakers with ribbons can and do have more flat response up high. So don't rule out the Philharmonic speakers, etc. They might split the difference between the RBH and Paradigms, and provide more long term listening pleasure.

The Paradigms at $5k/pair puts your budget in line with some serious contenders. While auditions may present a challenge, this is a big purchase (it would be for me, anyway), so it's worth some hassle and inconvenience to get it right.

Speakers in the same budgetary ballpark that I would consider would be the Mofi Pointsource 888 towers with a Pointsource 8 center. Maybe something from Philharmonic like the BMR ht towers with the matching ht center.

 

[TankTop5]

Don't chalk up your dislike of the RBH to the ribbon tweet specifically. Their measurements indicate the RBH have nailed the midrange but do reveal a bit of a step down in response up above 6k, so the treble may be a bit reticent, particularly compared to the Paradigms. Other speakers with ribbons can and do have more flat response up high. So don't rule out the Philharmonic speakers, etc. They might split the difference between the RBH and Paradigms, and provide more long term listening pleasure.

The Paradigms at $5k/pair puts your budget in line with some serious contenders. While auditions may present a challenge, this is a big purchase (it would be for me, anyway), so it's worth some hassle and inconvenience to get it right.

Speakers in the same budgetary ballpark that I would consider would be the Mofi Pointsource 888 towers with a Pointsource 8 center. Maybe something from Philharmonic like the BMR ht towers with the matching ht center.

You’re not wrong, price for LCR with center stand is about $9,500 all in but I am getting a decent discount. And yes it’s a chunk of change for me hence why I’m asking before buying, lol.

Isold cars for 20 years and I’d always have people asking about discounts early in the transaction. Sure I can do a discount but you’re looking at a $60k truck and after discount plus taxes and fees you’re looking at a $60k truck. I’m looking at just shy of $10k, let’s say after discount it’s 8 or 9, still a lot of money

 

[ski2xblack]

A Philharmonic setup would be less than $10k. The HT towers and HT center (one of the best center speakers in existence) are geared for sensitivity and wide dynamic range. That could be just the ticket for that "fun factor" you want.

 

[everettT]

I was going to go with the matching Founder 90C with the 100F. Starting to believe a center channel is the same a subs, go big or go home

There's a lot of speakers in your price range so be deligent. KEF, Revel, Philharmonic HT, etc..

 

[TLS Guy]

I was going to go with the matching Founder 90C with the 100F. Starting to believe a center channel is the same a subs, go big or go home

But also, go right, go home. That center is an MTM design, you absolutely want to avoid that. The ideal centers in my view are ones built round coaxial drivers. The second best is three way center with tweeter above the mid.

Speakers can not be too neutral, with smooth on and off axis curves. You get fed up fast with aberrant speakers.
If you pick the right speakers you will likely have them for the rest of your life most likely.

 

[kini]

MoFi 888 with a Kef R6 Meta for a center. You can try all 3 from crutchfield. Would cost a $100 or so to send them back if you no likey. Or Kef R11/7 Metas

 

[TankTop5]

But also, go right, go home. That center is an MTM design, you absolutely want to avoid that. The ideal centers in my view are ones built round coaxial drivers. The second best is three way center with tweeter above the mid.

Speakers can not be too neutral, with smooth on and off axis curves. You get fed up fast with aberrant speakers.
If you pick the right speakers you will likely have them for the rest of your life most likely.

Actually the center is coaxial

 

[ski2xblack]

The ideal centers in my view are ones built round coaxial drivers. The second best is three way center with tweeter above the mid.

Hence the recommendation of the Mofi (coax) and Phil (proper 3 way vertically oriented tweet/mid).

I have not heard either setup I recommended, just going by measurements and the informed opinion of others. Erin called the Mofi Pointsource 888 as among the three best speakers he's ever reviewed, and Philharmonic has pleased the most discerning music freaks here and elsewhere. I'm really not aware of better values than what Dennis offers.

 

[TankTop5]

Hence the recommendation of the Mofi (coax) and Phil (proper 3 way vertically oriented tweet/mid).

I have not heard either setup I recommended, just going by measurements and the informed opinion of others. Erin called the Mofi Pointsource 888 as among the three best speakers he's ever reviewed, and Philharmonic has pleased the most discerning music freaks here and elsewhere. I'm really not aware of better values than what Dennis offers.

The Phil’s would be $6k to my door leaving $2k to deal with first reflection and bass traps

 

[everettT]

The Phil’s would be $6k to my door leaving $2k to deal with first reflection and bass trapsView attachment 69116

The Phil's won't be a major issue for 1st reflection and the distortion numbers at high SPL make them a top choice. You just have a lot of options, so don't compromise on a center.

 

[TLS Guy]

Actually the center is coaxial

Actually the center is coaxial

lt is not. The center driver is a tweeter with a huge waveguide.

 

[everettT]

The Phil's can be easily EQd to anyone's taste and the directivity is very smooth. James's measurement of the the horizontal, that's gorgeous for the most part

Edit: note that I have several Dennis Murphy designed speakers and every one of them are room friendly and easy to EQ, if sound shaping is required. I'm definitely a fan boy, just wanted to make my bias known but measurements back everything up. Fan of Dynaudio upper mid lines as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

RBH SV-61R and I didn’t love them

Might audition your next potential speakers for a very long time before buying anything, especially for that kind of money.

As TLS mentioned, might try to EQ the treble from 8kHz - 15kHz (like +2dB or +3dB) to see if that sounds better.

Or audition speakers that are more flat all the way out to 20kHz. For example, Shady just measured the new RBH 61-SF/R (replacement to SV-61/R) and it is flat all the way out to 20Hz - so no more of that tapering down from 8kHz.

RBH Sound Signature 61-SFM/R Floor-Standing Loudspeaker Review

We reviewed RBH Sound's 61-SFM/R modular loudspeaker, which upgrades their premium bookshelf to a full-range tower featuring a top-notch AMT tweeter, a 6.5" midrange driver, and dual 8" bass drivers.

www.audioholics.com