Proof that you don't have to spend tons of money to get a good sound system.

Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I just want to share with those who may feel that it is simply to hard and expensive to get a good system. First of all don't look at Bose. Good that bridge is crossed.

I would like to share my personal experience as a demonstration to show that you don't have to be rich to get good sound, you just have to know how to look. I dabble heavily in the used market because I can usually tell what is going to work out and what isn't. Having a basic idea of what certain audio companies are and where they stand in the Hi-Fi world can help you determine what is good and what is not good. Note: This is only helpful, some companies make some things good and some things bad. Sony for instance makes great LCD flat panel TV's but makes poor speakers and receivers for the most part. It also can vary from series to series. Polk makes some good speakers and some not. You can usually tell if a speaker is good by it's weight, knocking tests, and driver quality/configurations. Same goes for amplifiers, only look for heavy amps, with big power supplies, large power consumptions and large capacitors. Weight isn't always a factor, but commonly is, especially in a used electronics market.

Speakers: Bigger doesn't always mean better. You look at a pair of Optimus floor standing speakers with a shallow depth cabinet and a 12" woofer, and then a pair of NHT 1.5 bookshelf speakers with a funky design. They both cost $100 (hypothetical scenario). You think to your self, hey the Optimus are bigger so they are better right. Well they are better for being loud and having boomy acoustically inaccurate bass, but of course they cannot match the tonal clarity of the NHT's. You knock on the Optimus, it makes a hollow sound, you knock on the NHT's you hear a dull thud of your knuckle cracking on the cabinet. Guess what, that means that the cabinet will be less prone to vibrating and making it's own sound when you listen to music. The hollowness you hear when listening to the Optimus is mostly cabinet noise.

Getting to the subject at hand, Can you afford a high end system without out spending thousands? absolutely. I have a very respectable system IMO for much less than what you would pay at retail. Just for illustration I will share the suggested retail of each item, and how much I paid, rounded prices of course. Some of these items may no longer be in my system, of course redundancies serve their purpose, but there are limits.

Onkyo TX-DS787 6.1 Surround sound receiver (100 watts per channel and THX certified)Blue book MSRP:$1100. Price paid at Speedy Pawn:$100

M&K MX-100 subwoofer w/ a high head-room 200 watt amp and two 12" woofers in a Push-Pull configuration, MSRP:$1300, price paid at Broadway Loan:$350

PSB Century 600i Floor standing speakers, Dual 6.5" woofers and 1" tweeter. MSRP:$600, price paid at EZpawn:$100

Toshiba SD-9000 flagship DVD player, built in DD decoding w/ 5.1 analog output. MSRP:$1200, price paid at EZpawn:$40

Carver AV-505 Five Channel amplifier (80 watts per channel all channels driven @ 8ohms) MSRP:$1100 price paid, at EZpawn:$300 (not the best deal, but still very good IMO)

Rotel RSP-960AX Preamp/Processor with Dolby Pro Logic, and good stereo performance, MSRP:$600 price paid at B&B loan Pawnbrokers:$90

Pioneer Elite PD-65 CD player with stable platter design, nice, MSRP:$800 price paid at B&B loan Pawnbrokers:$90

NHT 1.5 bookshelf speakers w/ 6.5" woofer and 1" tweeter high Gloss black finish, MSRP:$600 price paid at Cash America Pawn:$60

HSU STF-2 Subwoofer w/ 10" woofer and 300 watt BASH amplifier MSRP:$400 price paid at Cash America Pawn:$70

Three Boston Acoustic's HD-5 bookshelf speakers with 5.25" woofers in a sealed cabinet, Total MSRP:$235 (one was a HD-5v, a shielded model that cost $10 more) price paid at garage sale after haggling:$20

My current stereo system has the NHT's, The Rotel pre, the Carver amp, Toshiba DVD, BIC speakers, and the Pioneer CD player. A system with a suggested retail: $4550 that I paid only $600 for. So as you can see, that with patience, attention to detail, and not so much care about cosmetics and remote controls (just get a Harmony remote), then you can have a very good system with out spending all of "Lois's rainy day fund".
 
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A

abboudc

Audioholic Chief
How much time did it take you to assemble your system?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
All system parts aside from one I have gathered within one year. The Toshiba SD-9000 I purchased about 2 years ago. I also bought the PSB's last year, but I recently sold them to a friend.

I am adding one to the list here:

BIC Cinema One C-8.3 Floor standing speakers w/ two 8" woofers and a 1" tweeter (poor cosmetics) MSRP:$450 price paid from friend who has PSB's:$20
 
skizzerflake

skizzerflake

Audioholic Field Marshall
I had similar results (although not quite as cheap) on Ebay. I wanted a vinyl-based system. An old but excellent Thorens turntable, a 1980 NAD preamplifier and Carver amp coupled to retired but still excellent Vandersteen speakers gave me an analog only system on the cheap. The components were somewhat restored (cleaned inside and out), perform excellently and that system is the envy of people I know who never realized how good records could sound. You CAN get good stuff by spending some time and being resourceful.
 
JoeE SP9

JoeE SP9

Senior Audioholic
Just about everything in my system was bought used. My new processor (1 month old Lexicon) was bought new. It is the first new piece of gear I've purchased in 15+ years. It's also the first piece of gear I've bought in 6 years. I don't buy used phono cartridges. Things like that you have to buy new.:cool:
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
While I am all for getting the best deal for electronics, speakers, etc. what about manufacturers warranty?
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
agarwalro said:
While I am all for getting the best deal for electronics, speakers, etc. what about manufacturers warranty?
I've had pretty good results buying floor models and closeout items. I've gotten really good prices, though not as good as pawn shops, and my stuff came with a full manufacturers warranty. Also, some manufacturers have a factory refurbished area on their website that offers a full warranty on some items and a decent discount - usually around dealer cost.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I haven't had many warranty items, other than my M&K bought used at a pawn shop. The drivers are still under warranty because M&K's customer service is awesome.
 
B

bondman123

Audiophyte
Pretty cheap till I got the cable

Denon 3600 AVR 5.1 (115 watts per channel) $225 ebay
SONY DVD w/ HDMI cable 120 costco
Klipsch KSW 8.5 (bot 6 yrs ago at $600 pair retail Price- ideas for upgrade?)
Klipsch RS 25 surrounds $250 pair
SVS 20-39 pci 320 watt $549 ebay
Blue Jeans sub cable 47 feet $50
90 feet Blue Jeans Belkin 12 ga wire $50
Sounds fantastic for $1,844 plus about $100 shipping

Then my 37"Phillips LCD TV $1,350 + Tax at Costco went out after one month and Costco refunded my money

Samsung HL S-5087W 1080p $1,350 + 200 shipping advertised

Bot Samsung today at bestpricecamera.com Salesman says:
You must have this new Samsung cable which is not yet on the market called 3MDLX for $350, I say naa, he says 249 and it works with my time warner cable box. I can return it if I don't achieve 80 picture quality improvement over composite video cables AND will not need HD TV feed as this cable makes TV upconvert standard definition look better than my hd feed. Cable box has DVI out, so I guess this is what he is selling me. I bought the cable, but may return it. DVI cables cost 12 bucks. What is going on here?

Then the guy says I must pay $175 shipping insurance!! on top of $190 shipping fee. What?

Then the guys says he can waive the $175 insurance if I buy the $799 3-year warranty. I tell him I don't buy warranties, so he says he will give it to me for $699. (He says it will cost $800 for any minor repair) Consumer reports suggests extended warranty for DLP TV is a pretty good idea as bulbs burn out and they can break a lot. So I agree to buy the #$%&%$## warranty to avoid the $#$#@#%%^ shipping insurance.

He adds it up a couple of times and says $2,050 for the TV (2,000 at Circuit City), 3MDLX Cable??, shipping Free $95 cleaning kit (no windex allowed??), and 3-year on site warranty. It appears that his out loud price would be $2,984 for this package. Any way, can anybody tell me why a cable is worth $249?:confused:
 
B

bondman123

Audiophyte
Pretty cheap till I got the cable

Denon 3600 AVR 5.1 (115 watts per channel) $225 ebay
SONY DVD w/ HDMI cable 120 costco
Klipsch KSW 8.5 (bot 6 yrs ago at $600 pair retail Price- ideas for upgrade?)
Klipsch RS 25 surrounds $250 pair
SVS 20-39 pci 320 watt $549 ebay
Blue Jeans sub cable 47 feet $50
90 feet Blue Jeans Belkin 12 ga wire $50
Sounds fantastic for $1,844 plus about $100 shipping

Then my 37"Phillips LCD TV $1,350 + Tax at Costco went out after one month and Costco refunded my money

Samsung HL S-5087W 1080p $1,350 + 200 shipping advertised

Bot Samsung today at bestpricecamera.com Salesman says:
You must have this new Samsung cable which is not yet on the market called 3MDLX for $350, I say naa, he says 249 and it works with my time warner cable box. I can return it if I don't achieve 80 % picture quality improvement over composite video cables AND will not need HD TV feed as this cable makes TV upconvert standard definition look better than my hd feed. Cable box has DVI out, so I guess this is what he is selling me. I bought the cable, but may return it. DVI cables cost 12 bucks. What is going on here?

Then the guy says I must pay $175 shipping insurance!! on top of $190 shipping fee. What?

Then the guys says he can waive the $175 insurance if I buy the $799 3-year warranty. I tell him I don't buy warranties, so he says he will give it to me for $699. (He says it will cost $800 for any minor repair) Consumer reports suggests extended warranty for DLP TV is a pretty good idea as bulbs burn out and they can break a lot. So I agree to buy the #$%&%$## warranty to avoid the $#$#@#%%^ shipping insurance.

He adds it up a couple of times and says $2,050 for the TV (2,000 at Circuit City), 3MDLX Cable??, shipping Free $95 cleaning kit (no windex allowed??), and 3-year on site warranty. It appears that his out loud price would be $2,984 for this package. Any way, can anybody tell me why a cable is worth $249?:confused:
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
It really depends on what you consider "tons" of money :D My receiver cost me $1600 alone (new, and that WAS the discounted price, back when I had that kind of cash flow) , but the rest of my system I paid far less than new prices, and many were used and great deals.
 
B

bondman123

Audiophyte
Pretty cheap till I got the cable

Denon 3600 AVR 5.1 (115 watts per channel) $225 ebay
SONY DVD w/ HDMI cable 120 costco
Klipsch KSW 8.5 (bot 6 yrs ago at $600 pair retail Price- ideas for upgrade?)
Klipsch RS 25 surrounds $250 pair
SVS 20-39 pci 320 watt $549 ebay
Blue Jeans sub cable 47 feet $50
90 feet Blue Jeans Belkin 12 ga wire $50
Sounds fantastic for $1,844 plus about $100 shipping, 1244 without my old speakers.
 
skizzerflake

skizzerflake

Audioholic Field Marshall
bondman123 said:
He adds it up a couple of times and says $2,050 for the TV (2,000 at Circuit City), 3MDLX Cable??, shipping Free $95 cleaning kit (no windex allowed??), and 3-year on site warranty. It appears that his out loud price would be $2,984 for this package. Any way, can anybody tell me why a cable is worth $249?:confused:
A cable is worth as much as you can charge for it. It's one of the best audiophile superstitions that you can cash in on. Some years ago, an audio magazine did a double blind experiment in which they compared expensive cable to cheap cable and to Romex (the type of wire you use in walls to run electrical outlets). You buy Romex on big spools at Home Depot. The best results were with the Romex. The audiophiles decided that double blind studies were invalid. Unless you have a real well formed opinion on cable, I suggest that you buy any competantly manufactured cable, clean the contact surfaces on the components and on the cable connectors, make sure you have a good tight connection and then throw away your sales slip and tell your friends that you paid $100/foot for cable that contains diamond dust or baby tears enriched with oxygen or some such crap.
 
B

Beachboy2

Audiophyte
No. You might consider searching the cable threads here. Then return the cable.
 
B

bandit

Audioholic
Seth -

Nice system.... I've wondered through a few pawn shops in my day, but didn't find anything like what you have....

Enjoy !:)
 
N

niget2002

Junior Audioholic
I love pawn shops for this very reason.

I saw a Canon SLR camera the other day... Asking price was 179. I was looking at it real hard, but I didn't have the money.

After we left, my friend told me that the camera wasn't worth 179. I asked him if he looked at the lens, he said, "No". The camera had a 800 lens attached to it!

I'll probably go back :)

I too haven't spent much on my setup. The CD carosel, DVD player and receiver were bought new (or open box buys), but all my speakers came from pawn shops, garage sells, or were given to me by someone else.
 

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