Projector or Big Screen

stl1cjg

stl1cjg

Audioholic Intern
I have $850 in gift certifcates to spend at crutchfield. I have finished my dedicated HT room in the basement and decided that I might switch from a large dLP or equivilent TV to a front projector. I had planned on spending around $2500 total for the Mits 73". Here is the question (problem). I did not wire anything into the ceiling of the HT to accept a projector because I thought I would be getting a RP. CAn I get comparable pic quality in a FP as I would in a RP. It needs to be 1080p, watch sports, F!, but mostly movies. I have about 11 feet of usable space for a screen. I have no idea about FP. I know I would like to get a nice fixed screen but it seems like the bill would be going up and up. I am not one of these "philes" that can notice the most minor thing in sound or picture. I just want good picture quality while watching HD, blue ray, and normal TV viewing. Since the ceilings are already painted I do not want to fish lines through them. Can I run external wire channeling and paint it the same black and red color? Any body have a diagram of all the s#%* I will have to hook up to the FP. IS it worth it vs a RP?

Thanks
 
V

Vracer111

Audioholic
I would definately go with an LCD projector over any type of television (Projection, LCD, Plasma, whatever) if you have control of the lighting for use any time. Even my 720P Epson Home Cinema 720 works great with DVD's upscaled from 9+ feet away on a 92" Elite screen, Picture Quality is better than you get at a digital movie theater and just as good as my 32" 720P Samsung LCD TV (which is now my computer monitor). This thread HERE has pictures of my setup (though the wire routing has been changed and cleaned up since then.)

The only thing you need to hook up for a projector, other than power, is a single video signal input cable from the Receiver video out (HDMI or Component.) Just need to use a cable long enough to route from the Projector to the Receiver.

For screen size a 120" screen would be plenty big and would cost you about $360 for an Elitescreens Silverframe, $450 for a black Elitescreen EzFrame.
For a nice 1080P projector you could get and Epson Home Cinema 6100 for $1800. Total cost for Epson Home Cinema 6100 Projector, 120" Elitescreen EzFrame fixed screen, and HDMI cable would come to less than $2,500, and you could save an additional $90 with a 120" Elitescreens Silverframe screen.

Once you go HD projector with big screen you can't go back... the size and sense of movement along with its good contrast ratio and colors just makes it better than a technically better "small screen". As a side note the opening movie to the game Street Fighter IV (3 minutes 15 seconds) is just is plain awesome from both a visual and auditory perspective on the big screen.

I looked at the Crutchfield website and the only projectors they have are Sony's with the least expensive 1080P starting out at $3500. At Projector People you could get the Epson Home Cinema 6100 PLUS 120" screen for over $1000 less than just the Sony VPL-HW10...which doesn't have that much better picture quality.
 
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S

Sherardp

Audioholic
No a bad suggestion but go for the Epson 6500 and look into a slightly better screen, I would highly recommend Carada. Front PJs are very good these days, so the PQ of the Epson should blow you away. I would also suggest you look at the Panasonic 3000U as well and decide which would work better for you. As for mounting the PJ, depending on room dimensions you could shelf mount the PJ in the rear of the room. All you would need is Power and simple HDMI cable ran to receiver, all your sources into the receiver and you should be fine. Definitely go front PJ.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I did not wire anything into the ceiling of the HT to accept a projector because I thought I would be getting a RP. CAn I get comparable pic quality in a FP as I would in a RP.
In a dedicated home theater (read: LIGHT CONTROL!) you get results which typically rival those of your local cinema. Following THX guidelines of using a screen which is about .66x your seating distance in width you will have an image that is visually stunning. Smaller will produce an even better appearing image, but may not be as immersive or what you prefer.

There is tons of information available on making your own home theater and for most people who do end up going with front projection they have a hard time calling anything less than 100" 'home theater'. Plasma and LCD users sitting with 50" or so displays are TVs, not home theater. Granted, they may be great setups, but if you want a home theater, then do a home theater - not a TV, and front projection is the way to go.

Quality? Your rear projection Mitsubishi is going to be using a very similar projector to that which they sell as their home theater projector. It's a quality unit, and full 1080p, so the quality is basically identical - but bigger.

The photos here are using a 960x540 projector - http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html to give you an example of what different things look like under different controlled lighting.

It needs to be 1080p, watch sports, F!, but mostly movies.
Any 1080p projector can do this, so read the reviews to find one which will match your budget and room appropriately. For $2,500 (projector only) you can get the Epson 6500UB or the Panasonic AE3000 both of which are very good 1080p models. The 6100 and other cheaper models are good, but not in the same class as those two, but will save you some cash if $2,500 is a hard budget.

I have about 11 feet of usable space for a screen.
11' wide WITH speakers on either side? That's a really large screen and would be viewed, typically, from about 16-18 feet away. If you don't have the much viewing distance, but are sitting at about 10' to 12' away, you probably want about a 100" to 120" diagonal. Screen size is VERY much personal preference, but should be considered as your preference not simply as the 'biggest you can go with' - as bigger isn't always better.

I have no idea about FP.
Either did I at one point, this is how it starts - just ask questions.

I know I would like to get a nice fixed screen but it seems like the bill would be going up and up.
There are lesser expensive solutions, some of which were listed above. But, I would NOT use a silver edged screen but a black velvet one. On the cheaper (but still decent) side of things, Focupix has a decent model which is available with black velvet trim and can be paired with the AE3000 6500UB or 6100 projectors no issue at all.

I am not one of these "philes" that can notice the most minor thing in sound or picture.
Everyone actually is, but if you choose not to then you will be much happier. :D I'm a big fan of enjoy it first, nitpick it later.

I just want good picture quality while watching HD, blue ray, and normal TV viewing.
HD & Blu-ray will be excellent. Normal, standard definition, TV will not look good, but wouldn't look good on a 73" Mits either. It just doesn't look good. But, if you know that, then you will be fine.

Since the ceilings are already painted I do not want to fish lines through them. Can I run external wire channeling and paint it the same black and red color?
Depending on your wall design you may prefer to simply cut a few holes then spackle, but if not, then you can always get surface mount conduit.

http://www.electriduct.com/Raceways-Wire-Duct_c_122.html

Not as clean as hiding it all, but when done well, it looks fine, and depending on the layout of the room and which projector you get, you may be able to place the projector at/near the far back of the room.

Any body have a diagram of all the s#%* I will have to hook up to the FP.
Every projector comes with diagrams, but a list is usually easier.
This is the minimum:
1 - Power Connection
1 - HDMI Connection (from receiver) for your HD viewing

Recommended:
1 - Component video connection (in case you have any HDMI issues)
1 - Composite video connection (legacy - just in case)
3 - CAT-5 (or CAT-6) raw cable runs (you can run almost any A/V source over Cat-5!)
1 - VGA cable - for your computer connection

If you run conduit, then just run the basics and add cabling later if you need/want to.

IS it worth it vs a RP?
Most people who own, or have ever owned, a decent front projection setup will tell you the same thing... ABSOLUTELY! Front projection is home theater in all the ways that everything else comes up short. It produces truly stunning image quality and makes you wonder if you will ever go to the theater again because you will be sitting in the best seat in the house.

One thing that was not really touched on was that I am assuming that you already have an A/V receiver and 5.1 (or more) audio setup and that the $2,500 budget you had did NOT include audio requirements as this will cost a fair bit as well and is typically handled separately with its own budget.
 
stl1cjg

stl1cjg

Audioholic Intern
Bmx

BMXTRIX thanks for all the advice. I am definately leaning towards the FP. The room is 14 wide by 26 long with 7 and a half foot ceiling. I have my couches in the room right now and they are a little over 13 feet away from the wall where the screen would go.

Also, the $2500 budget is just for the FP and screen. I plan on using something from the Klipsch line in a 7.2 setup. Maybe the RB-81 or the RF 82 as mains with a RC center. Not sure yet. As far as AV receiver, I was thinking MArantz or Denon. SInce I have the gift certificates I could get the AV from crutchfield and get the FP I want and can afford. I have auditioned many different speakers but enjoyed the Klipsch for their dynamics in HT. Music would only be about 15-20% of the time.

Thanks Again
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
BMXTRIX thanks for all the advice. I am definately leaning towards the FP. The room is 14 wide by 26 long with 7 and a half foot ceiling. I have my couches in the room right now and they are a little over 13 feet away from the wall where the screen would go.
Make sure it is never exactly 13 ft away, for the midpoint of the room length is the most undesirable, perhaps outside of being against the back wall, in terms of acoustics. 38% of length, whether from front or back, is the general recommended starting point for listener positioning in a closed rectangular room.

Also, the $2500 budget is just for the FP and screen.
I will be the 3rd person in this thread that will recommend a $2500 PJ. It is IMO the "sweet spot" price point in the FP world. Mine is more expensive, but I'd tell my personal friends the same thing, if you can afford 2.5k for the PJ, do it, outside of finding some really screaming deal on a refurbed, openbox, or demo.

If the budget is set in stone, so be it. But, I'm dog-piling on the recommendation at the 2.5k price point, namely for the Epson 6500 or Pana.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Also, the $2500 budget is just for the FP and screen.
Now the real hard part begins. You see, at $2,600 is the Epson 6500UB (with free extra lamp) - which is going to push your budget a bit, but is a better projector than the Epson 6100 which clocks in a $1900 and then has a $100 mail in rebate and a free lamp. (VisualApex.com)

So, it's a $800 price difference between the two, which may simply not be something you can stomach if you are really stuck on that budget.

The Panasonic sits at $2,500 exactly - great, but doesn't leave you a penny for a screen.

This is about the least expensive, but decent screen out there...
http://www.htdepot.com/Focupix_Widescreen_Fixed_Frame_Screen_138_White_p/ff169lt-133mw.htm

$500 - ain't exactly pocket change.

The better recommendation for that level of projector would be something like the Carada Criterion in Brilliant White...
http://www.carada.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=PROJECTION-SCREEN-H134C

About $1,100 shipped.

The hard part with screens is that there is a lot of expensive raw materials and they are awkward to ship - so the price on screens has remained somewhat stagnant while projector prices have gone through the floor.

Budget matters, so the choices now simply reside in you making some personal decisions overall.

I would not shy away from the 6100 as it is an excellent projector, and one of the brightest 1080p models out there for the money. Combined with a larger screen, you really will have an excellent setup.
 
ErinH

ErinH

Audioholic General
I'll be following this. My budget is nearly the exact same for screen/FP.
I have been eyeing the epson 1080ub for the past 6 months. Is that still a solid contender? I've seen it as low as $2k on videogon.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Buying a used projector is always questionable and carries a fair amount of risk. Especially since you likely will not carry any warranty with the projector. While the 1080UB was the best sub $3k projector last year I would likely go with the 6100 over it this year as a new model if I couldn't swing the 6500. Unless I was getting a crazy deal on the 1080 it just doesn't seem worth it. Probably need to be $1,200 or less to get me excited.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Buying a used projector is always questionable and carries a fair amount of risk. Especially since you likely will not carry any warranty with the projector. While the 1080UB was the best sub $3k projector last year I would likely go with the 6100 over it this year as a new model if I couldn't swing the 6500. Unless I was getting a crazy deal on the 1080 it just doesn't seem worth it. Probably need to be $1,200 or less to get me excited.
Unless you can service your own PJ I don't suggest the used route, but you can get a square trade warranty to cover any purchase on Ebay and I always buy my electronics off their. If you are tech savy and have no problem fixing electronics then by all means go used.

However BMX is right in that you should pay no more than 1200 used for a 1080p PJ

720p's go for around 600 and the Business class PJ's go for around 300

The first thing to budget for is the screen IMO. A good screen can last you a long time. PJs will probably be switched every 3 to 5 years. So get a damn good screen.

Sanyo PLV-1080HD High Definition 1080p is the cheapest 1080p PJ I would buy.

it's 1500 at amazon though bbuy has been known to sell it for cheap.

Pair it with the Carada screen BMX mentioned and you will have a much better setup IMO. than going for a cheap screen and a more expensive PJ.

of course if you can step up the budget there are many great PJs at 2000 dollars. But I think it's unwise to stretch ones budget on luxuries.

Do be aware that PJs are for nerds and Techs because setting them up is a lot of work.

TVs are for average folks setting them up is much easier.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
Seems likes everyong has already given out some great advice. Just put me down as another vote for the FP. I have two in my house and would never dream of getting anything else at this point. They make the whole experience worth while in a big way. (no pun intended)
 
ErinH

ErinH

Audioholic General
Thanks, guys, for giving me some added advice on the epson 1080ub and other options. you may have just scaled my budget by about $500
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks, guys, for giving me some added advice on the epson 1080ub and other options. you may have just scaled my budget by about $500
Make sure you don't use that PJ for more than 8 hours at a time. I suggest using it for no more than a single movie or sporting event at a time because of the organic LCD panels. If you limit that then the PJ can last you several years. It's very quiet though.
 
ErinH

ErinH

Audioholic General
Make sure you don't use that PJ for more than 8 hours at a time. I suggest using it for no more than a single movie or sporting event at a time because of the organic LCD panels. If you limit that then the PJ can last you several years. It's very quiet though.
in my case, we would use it only for movies. no tv going upstairs. the room is dedicated HT, too.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Buying a used projector is always questionable and carries a fair amount of risk. Especially since you likely will not carry any warranty with the projector. While the 1080UB was the best sub $3k projector last year I would likely go with the 6100 over it this year as a new model if I couldn't swing the 6500. Unless I was getting a crazy deal on the 1080 it just doesn't seem worth it. Probably need to be $1,200 or less to get me excited.
Unless you can service your own PJ I don't suggest the used route, but you can get a square trade warranty to cover any purchase on Ebay and I always buy my electronics off their. If you are tech savy and have no problem fixing electronics then by all means go used.

However BMX is right in that you should pay no more than 1200 used for a 1080p PJ

720p's go for around 600 and the Business class PJ's go for around 300.
I can definitely understand these points/opinions. I would also stay away from used in most* cases.

However, if and when I ever upgrade my PJ, I will most definitely comb the classifieds at the forums of which I am a regular at. If they have a significant posting history, of which I am either familiar with, or can check out, I would be much less apprehensive.

What would then seal the deal for me is they lived close to me, where not only could I pick it up in person, but see it working before I even hand over the money.

For example, if I was looking for an RS1, I would totally trust Sherardp with his recent sale. The problem is that I already have one, and I worry about international shipping.

OTOH, if he lived in the western US, and had a RS20 for sale . . . :p:rolleyes::eek:

I've never done the above, but I expect to look into the possibility when the time comes. There are a LOT of folks who upgrade their PJs very quickly (gotta have the lastest/best), and these PJs are in most cases less than 2 years old. Sometimes only 1 yr old with 700-800 hours on it. And the price will be half of what the seller bought it for.
 
D

dDavid

Audiophyte
Not that you haven't been completely convinced, but just to add to the pile, here is an AH review. Compares 6500 to 1080 ub, and you win in just about every category. Including price!

I noticed that he said that the 6500UB was the same or better than the 1080UB where it counted. Why did the 1080 get 5/5 and the 6500UB get 4/4? I'm confused...
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
I don't see a point to PJs for screens under 60", and especially when used in a room not dedicated for the purpose with controlled lighting.

I'm nutz I guess, seems like a lot of people would use a PJ even for 50" screens.
 

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