Processor or High End Receiver?

[jcPanny]

Receiver as pre-pro.

The only thing I'd like to weigh in on with using a receiver as a pre-pro is extra heat. A receiver does crank out considerably more heat than a pre/pro. The amp section of a receiver will just be sitting around doing nothing but cranking out heat. Obviously if you are already running separate amps I would hope you already took that into consideration.

When used as a pre-pro, the reciever's amp probably won't even get warm because it is under no load. Most receivers also have a pure-direct option to turn off the video board and other unnecessary circuitry. Another bonus is that a mid-fi receiver's larger case and amp requirements probably result in a bigger and beefier power supply than most dedicated pre-pros.

 

[majorloser]

That big toroidal power supply is still operating, even without a load.

There is no need for a "beefy" power supply on a pre/pro. Very low amperage.

 

[mitch57]

indcrimdefense,

How is your comparison testing coming along? Inquiry minds would like to know.

Thanks

 

[indcrimdefense]

AVM 20 was returned last evening so comparision w/ the 2805 is complete. most noticeable difference was using cable, avm 20 had a better sound using cable, particularly with vocals. this may not be a problem w/ the 2805 per se, may be caused by 2805 & rf-7 horn tweeters. in my system it was a significant difference. the difference was present whether or not i was using THX, and improved even more using THX. i have never liked the sound from cable, whether it was a digital or analog source. the avm 20 changed my mind & sounded fantastic w/ cable. music, avm 20 was again the winner, but by a narrower margin than i originally would have suspected. using the avm 20 analog direct v. the 2805 ext in, using rca connection to amp, it was very close, with no real winner. comparing avm 20 balanced to 2805 rca connection did make a difference, with avm 20 having the edge. where the avm 20 did sound better was using a digital signal, whether any of the DSP modes were activated or not. the avm 20 is the first processor or receiver i have heard where DSP can actually improve the sound quality. anthem logic music is the best DSP i have heard for music.

in my opinion the avm 20 is the better component, but it's not a night and day difference. it is an improvement in sound quality, and so far is my favorite processor, including the demo krell showcase i have at home now (they offered, how could i resist). i didn't buy the demo avm 20 as i was unhappy with the price for a used unit, but i am strongly considering buying the avm 30 which has a $400 lower price point and from what i can tell from the web has no differences in sound quality from the avm 20. the only reason i didn't buy the avm 20 was the price & it's color (black) as my amp & dvd player are silver.

overall i would give the avm 20 an outstanding review. it is the best sounding processor i have demoed, is easy to set up and use, and produced the best music quality to date w/ my current speakers and components. in my opinion, it has a better music quality than my 2805, but again it is not a night and day difference. with the avm 20, i simply enjoyed the music, which is what this is all about.

 

[mitch57]

Thanks for the update! We really appreciate it. Do you think the AVM 30 at more then double the cost of the 2805 is worth it? If so, please tell us why you think so.

Thanks again for the review.

 

[PENG]

overall i would give the avm 20 an outstanding review. it is the best sounding processor i have demoed, is easy to set up and use, and produced the best music quality to date w/ my current speakers and components. in my opinion, it has a better music quality than my 2805, but again it is not a night and day difference. with the avm 20, i simply enjoyed the music, which is what this is all about.

Thank you for a nice update, but did you do any blind comparison at all?

 

[indcrimdefense]

recently returned the krell showcase, which had a very clean, sterile sound. as for the avm 20, i can tell you that i miss having it my system, and have had to resist the temptation just to go back & buy the demo unit. for me, the avm 20 (or more appropriately the avm 30 at 400 less) is worth the additional investment over the 2805. the music has all the body that i ever thought it should, but with exceptional clarity and detail. the krell was as clean and detailed, but there was no ummpphh, no body, and in comparison sounded sterile. is the avm 30 3X better than the 2805, if your only comparing msrp to msrp, no. but it provided to my system exactly what i have been searching for, which is exceptional music quality with my existing components.

 

[The13thGryphon]

When used as a pre-pro, the reciever's amp probably won't even get warm because it is under no load. Most receivers also have a pure-direct option to turn off the video board and other unnecessary circuitry. Another bonus is that a mid-fi receiver's larger case and amp requirements probably result in a bigger and beefier power supply than most dedicated pre-pros.

Though it sounds like it should be the case, it is not always true. A friend of mine recently purchased a Rotel amp to power his 5.1 surround system. He has a Sony V444ES receiver that he's continuing to use as his preamp. We hooked up the Rotel amp and then swithced the speaker selector on the Sony receiver to off, as we no longer needed the internal amps on the receiver.

We fired everything up and the video came through fine... but there was no sound. None whatsoever. We double checked all of the connections and still nothing. On a whim I moved the Sony receiver's speaker selector switch back to the "A" position, and immediately the audio began playing. Now keep in mind that the speakers were now hooked up to the Rotel amp... not the Sony!

You could have knocked me over with a feather when it dawned on me that the preamp outputs of the Sony receiver were tied to the speaker selector switch, and the only way to get sound to the Rotel amp was to keep the speaker selector in the "A" position, which also has the side effect of keeping the tranformer and possibly the outputs of the Sony internal amps active. It works, but man does it pump out the heat.

 

[gene]

A receiver does crank out considerably more heat than a pre/pro. The amp section of a receiver will just be sitting around doing nothing but cranking out heat.

A very valid point. I am finding the RX-V2600 runs pretty warm despite I am using it as a pre/pro only in my Family Room system. I was thinking about cutting the power between the rails and the amp section to eliminate this problem, but this isn't a tweak I would advise consumers to do.

 

[surveyor]

A very valid point. I am finding the RX-V2600 runs pretty warm despite I am using it as a pre/pro only in my Family Room system. I was thinking about cutting the power between the rails and the amp section to eliminate this problem, but this isn't a tweak I would advise consumers to do.

I guess it's case by case, when using a reciever as a pre-pro.
I use my Yamaha RX-V2200 as a pre-amp and it never gets hot when using it as a pre-amp only.
Is the RX-V2600 a class A up to 5 or 10 watts?
It might be something to do with the circuitry that allows variable amplifier assignment?

 

[Leprkon]

I'm getting close to upgrading my Denon 3805. I'm looking for better sound stageing and steering which I've been told I can get by upgrading my receiver to a seperate processor.

Thanks,

Mitch

the bigger question is how much do you want for the "trashy piece of junk" that you would be replacing ?

 

[mitch57]

the bigger question is how much do you want for the "trashy piece of junk" that you would be replacing ?

Why do you ask? Do you want to buy it?

 

[Leprkon]

Why do you ask? Do you want to buy it?

that's an option...

 

[majorloser]

A very valid point. I am finding the RX-V2600 runs pretty warm despite I am using it as a pre/pro only in my Family Room system. I was thinking about cutting the power between the rails and the amp section to eliminate this problem, but this isn't a tweak I would advise consumers to do.

Never thought of that. You know, they usually put a fuse on the rails. Might be able to just pull the fuse.

 

[indcrimdefense]

have had the avm 30 now for over a month, and am extremely happy with it. the biggest difference, along with improved sound quality, is a significantly lower noise floor than the 2805, which is critical to me as i listen to alot of jazz recorded in the 50's for which noise can be a problem. the avm 30 will not kill all the noise on every disc, but it is a significant improvement with virtually all discs, for example brubeck live at the college of the pacific. sound quality with any source is fantastic, from analog, to digital, to using DSP or not. the AVM 30 is the only processor in which DSP made an improvement to sound quality, and the THX function is also an improvement when watching movies. have again done some comparisons with the 2805, and the avm 30 is the winner, better sound quality, greater set up options, significantly superior DSP than the 2805 - this is not even a close call. well worth the additional investment over the 2805. now looking at upgrading my speakers... thank god i'm single.

 

[eirepaul]

For the money, I wouldn't recommend either of these processors, especially the more expensive C1 which simply adds a 5" display at a whopping markup of $2k!

You are far better off with a good Denon or Yamaha receiver and using it as a prepro coupled to your excellent Parasound amps. You can always use the receiver amps to power the back channels and another zone of audio.

I completely agree Gene. This is exactly what I do and it works great for me. I use channels 6 and 7 as rear surrounds in the winter and as Zone 2 outside in the spring/summer/fall. I originally used my 3805 as a stand alone receiver until I realized I needed beefier amps for my situation. I can always go back to using it that way. I don't need video switching.