Problems With Liberal Democracy

[lovinthehd]

Didn't say it wasn't. I said if it's close the Republicans will take whatever measures necessary based on the economy. Hopefully it isn't close.

I wouldn't expect the pubs to do much intelligent "based on the economy" measures....they usually don't.

 

[Danzilla31]

Been a good thread been reading and catching up

I have no idea on how the midterms are going to go. Yes Democrats have made mistakes on certain policies and issues but so have the Republicans on other issues.

I feel like I'm watching a football game where each team keeps fumbling away opportunities to put the game away.

I think it will be closer then some think and not quiet the red bloodbath wave some were predicting. It will be like when democrats won last time Republicans may pull ahead but they won't make the gains they were hoping for.

 

[Danzilla31]

On voting ID I agree 100% with you @jinjuku it's not hard to get an ID. I live here in Texas supposedly the most backward republican heavy state there is and it's pretty stupid easy to get one. I just dont see how you can have legitimate elections without them.

 

[Danzilla31]

So now Fetterman says he 'celebrates the demise of Roe v Wade' ! two days to go , is he trying to hand the Wizard of Oz the election ? !!

I feel bad for Fetterman. Whatever your ideology is on politics that's one tough son of a gun to be up there campaigning after a stroke. I wish him the best I hope he makes a full recovery

 

[lovinthehd]

On voting ID I agree 100% with you @jinjuku it's not hard to get an ID. I live here in Texas supposedly the most backward republican heavy state there is and it's pretty stupid easy to get one. I just dont see how you can have legitimate elections without them.

Just what is the deal with ID? I always had to provide one that I remember. In some places you can just verbally swear you are who you claim you are? Glad we don't have to go to polling places here myself. Of course you can probably easily get a gun and a six pack of beer to drive with in Texas, too

 

[lovinthehd]

I feel bad for Fetterman. Whatever your ideology is on politics that's one tough son of a gun to be up there campaigning after a stroke. I wish him the best I hope he makes a full recovery

And the failed Oprah doc wins? Is that a thing already?

 

[dlaloum]

Just went into Arthoscopic surgery on Friday and pre-checkin had to provide an ID. This is where people poo poo the ID to vote will kind of start muting.

Until somebody can convince me otherwise ID's are ubiquitous, easy to obtain, and an established method to combat common fraud.

Everyone has "an ID" - typically when ID is used as an excuse for excluding people, the regulations are written to require not just "an" ID, but a specific ID, and one which has a trend to being limit to specific groups in society...

It's like saying - drivers licence is ubiquitous, lets use that - except it isn't - lots of New Yorkers and Parisians don't have drivers licences.... cities with plentiful public transport, and limited parking spaces often have low rates of driving licences. (to use one example)

 

[lovinthehd]

Everyone has "an ID" - typically when ID is used as an excuse for excluding people, the regulations are written to require not just "an" ID, but a specific ID, and one which has a trend to being limit to specific groups in society...

It's like saying - drivers licence is ubiquitous, lets use that - except it isn't - lots of New Yorkers and Parisians don't have drivers licences.... cities with plentiful public transport, and limited parking spaces often have low rates of driving licences. (to use one example)

OTOH many in many states, if you don't want a driver's license, there's a rough equivalent of an id for other purposes.

ps Bringing your passport could be confusing, too....and how many poll workers can verify the authenticity of an id anyways?

 

[Danzilla31]

Final thought I think Democrats which were traditionally the party of the working class contine to lose ground in this vital voting base. Not just with white working class either. But also with the Hispanic voters and Black voters as well in this group.

I just feel like democrats doubling down on identity politics and very controversial platforms is hurting them a lot. They seem from what I can see is to campaign on voting access abortion rights election integrity with a big splash of Republicans are destroying democracy if you vote for them. I feel this is a mistake

I think the average voter in the working class is more focused on issues like inflation,cost of living, energy independence, border issues, education issues, crime, things of that nature.

This loss of this voting base has been hurting them going back to Hillary in 2016 and ever since. Nobody has carried this part of the voter base very well since Obama.

 

[lovinthehd]

Everyone has "an ID" - typically when ID is used as an excuse for excluding people, the regulations are written to require not just "an" ID, but a specific ID, and one which has a trend to being limit to specific groups in society...

It's like saying - drivers licence is ubiquitous, lets use that - except it isn't - lots of New Yorkers and Parisians don't have drivers licences.... cities with plentiful public transport, and limited parking spaces often have low rates of driving licences. (to use one example)

I also remember the poll person had a list of possible voters to check against, so even if two people show up with the same ID, only one can vote and I'd raise holy hell if someone took my spot....

 

[Danzilla31]

Just what is the deal with ID? I always had to provide one that I remember. In some places you can just verbally swear you are who you claim you are? Glad we don't have to go to polling places here myself. Of course you can probably easily get a gun and a six pack of beer to drive with in Texas, too

Well we can carry even concealed now without a permit so driving around with a gun Is not that hard for sure Lovin now the 6 pack may be another issue. Texas don't f about with drinking and driving that's for sure.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well we can carry even concealed now without a permit so driving around with a gun Is not that hard for sure Lovin now the 6 pack may be another issue. Texas don't f about with drinking and driving that's for sure.

I remember some rule about beer in the driver's area that was permitted there but not elsewhere....but didn't live in Texas, altho almost did and my family was originally from there back in the day. That any numbnut can carry concealed is just scary.

 

[Danzilla31]

OTOH many in many states, if you don't want a driver's license, there's a rough equivalent of an id for other purposes.

ps Bringing your passport could be confusing, too....and how many poll workers can verify the authenticity of an id anyways?

Acceptable forms include:
Texas driver's license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Texas election ID certificate
Texas personal ID card
Texas handgun license
US military ID with photo
US citizenship certificate with photograph (doesn't need to be current)
US passport

You can use any one of these to vote in Texas. As @jinjuku said its not that hard to get some type of ID to vote. So I do think this whole voter suppression thing is over rated. I absolutely do believe that valid ID needs to be required so NEITHER party can claim elections are illegitimate.

 

[lovinthehd]

Acceptable forms include:
Texas driver's license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Texas election ID certificate
Texas personal ID card
Texas handgun license
US military ID with photo
US citizenship certificate with photograph (doesn't need to be current)
US passport

You can use any one of these to vote in Texas. As @jinjuku said its not that hard to get some type of ID to vote. So I do think this whole voter suppression thing is over rated. I absolutely do believe that valid ID needs to be required so NEITHER party can claim elections are illegitimate.

But do they have voter lists so no duplication/unauthorized votes happen ?

 

[Danzilla31]

I remember some rule about beer in the driver's area that was permitted there but not elsewhere....but didn't live in Texas, altho almost did and my family was originally from there back in the day. That any numbnut can carry concealed is just scary.

Honestly for the most part it works the opposite way Lovin. People are usually pretty polite and respectful here and I guarantee you knowing anyone may be packing is a big part of that. When they first came out with it 2 years ago I too was wondering if it would be like the Wild Wild West but its actually been the exact opposite

 

[Danzilla31]

But do they have voter lists so no duplication/unauthorized votes happen ?

I believe they do they would have to I'd imagine although I never gave it much thought. I'll check and let you know if they do

 

[lovinthehd]

Honestly for the most part it works the opposite way Lovin. People are usually pretty polite and respectful here and I guarantee you knowing anyone may be packing is a big part of that. When they first came out with it 2 years ago I too was wondering if it would be like the Wild Wild West but its actually been the exact opposite

So if some stupid bully is carrying will others call the dumbshit out or be afraid to? Just seems bully territory, as the repubs seem to gravitate to

 

[lovinthehd]

I believe they do they would have to I'd imagine although I never gave it much thought. I'll check and let you know if they do

Wouldn't that be a good first step rather than jump to conclusions as to what a fake id would do?

 

[Danzilla31]

Wouldn't that be a good first step rather than jump to conclusions as to what a fake id would do?

I'm pretty sure every state has security measures setup to cover your question. I'll check to see how Texas does it your question got me curious

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm pretty sure every state has security measures setup to cover your question. I'll check to see how Texas does it your question got me curious

I'd agree. The whole conspiracy theory as the republicans cling to is full of sh*t in general.