Preamp outs on Av Receiver

[adwilk]

Good grief guys get back to helping this guy find a receiver.

I don't believe that this Pioneer has preouts. Keep looking.

Easy there Charlie Brown... It is gonna be tough at his budget and might not even solve his problem....

 

[Seth=L]

Easy there Charlie Brown... It is gonna be tough at his budget and might not even solve his problem....

I don't believe that this Pioneer has preouts. Keep looking.

The VSX-816 is perhaps one of the least expensive receivers in recent history to offer 7.1 preouts.

 

[mibson]

you go to canada with his budget and find one

Used, I have found two or three for sale in my city (Edmonton) for under $200. However , after some feedback Im wondering if what I read is correct (multiple times on a few different sites) that when using the ps3 analog outs for cd playback , the sound is bright. Im surprised that in blind tests that a cheep Sony cd player that is 20+ years old sounds "better" than the ps3…

Someone posted that "providing a capable speaker" you can use EQ ing to get the sound you want, I think my PSB T8s are quite capable...? I am wondering about the behringer eq Ive heard good things about.

A few questions here, many of you say that cd players dont sound different, but at the same time you dont use $40 cd/dvd players why? You can get a
Sony divx cd/dvd player now for about $40, I have one and it does not sound good at all, it is clearly "muddy".

Also, when playing various music dvds in my ps3, using the analog outs, the sound is not as bright as cd playback, why? (I usually do blind tests because I do understand how much our brain can add/remove data..., this test was not blind however)

I read in a few places that the ps3 does not use a true DAC for cd playback via analog outs, it uses its processors with software, and poorly at that. Is this nonsense?

Im not sure if I need a receiver now...

I was under the impression that using a receiver with digital inputs would allow me to use the receivers DAC and reduce the brightness from the ps3 cd playback via analog outputs; now I just dont know. Perhaps my Arcam xeta2 is bright?

Ive also realized that the music I listen to is rather bright at times, actually my speakers are doing a great job of giving me a “true” sound, perhaps too true...And, my room is large and perhaps Im pushing this UPA-2 a bit too much, it has shown some signs of distortion at high volumes...I do plan to get a XPA-2 when I get wife approval and use the UPA-2 for a center channel.(a year or more)

PS: I need to do another post regarding room acoustics, my room is unusual and after 50+ hrs of reading regarding room acoustics Im still not sure how much of what I read can be applied to my room...

Also, by adjusting the angle of my speakers last night, I was able to make some pretty significant changes...I have a feeling Ill be moving these around for a while (and they are heavy!)

 

[bandphan]

Used, I have found two or three for sale in my city (Edmonton) for under $200. However , after some feedback Im wondering if what I read is correct (multiple times on a few different sites) that when using the ps3 analog outs for cd playback , the sound is bright. Im surprised that in blind tests that a cheep Sony cd player that is 20+ years old sounds "better" than the ps3…

Perception only


A few questions here, many of you say that cd players dont sound different, but at the same time you dont use $40 cd/dvd players why? You can get a
Sony divx cd/dvd player now for about $40, I have one and it does not sound good at all, it is clearly "muddy".

The less expensive players do not offer the features.

Also, when playing various music dvds in my ps3, using the analog outs, the sound is not as bright as cd playback, why? (I usually do blind tests because I do understand how much our brain can add/remove data..., this test was not blind however)

Has to do with the source material

I read in a few places that the ps3 does not use a true DAC for cd playback via analog outs, it uses its processors with software, and poorly at that. Is this nonsense?

If concerned get a spdif cable instead.

Im not sure if I need a receiver now...

I was under the impression that using a receiver with digital inputs would allow me to use the receivers DAC and reduce the brightness from the ps3 cd playback via analog outputs; now I just dont know. Perhaps my Arcam xeta2 is bright?

Ive also realized that the music I listen to is rather bright at times, actually my speakers are doing a great job of giving me a “true” sound, perhaps too true...

PS: I need to do another post regarding room acoustics, my room is unusual and after 50+ hrs of reading regarding room acoustics Im still not sure how much of what I read can be applied to my room...

Also, by adjusting the angle of my speakers last night, I was able to make some pretty significant changes...I have a feeling Ill be moving these around for a while (and they are heavy!)

vertical and horizontal positioning can make a big difference.

 

[mibson]

""Used, I have found two or three for sale in my city (Edmonton) for under $200. However , after some feedback Im wondering if what I read is correct (multiple times on a few different sites) that when using the ps3 analog outs for cd playback , the sound is bright. Im surprised that in blind tests that a cheep Sony cd player that is 20+ years old sounds "better" than the ps3…

Perception only""

I did this test blind numerous times with someone else changing the cables at "random"...

You say SPDIF? how would I use that with a ps3? I thought it was HDMI, optical, or RCA? Keep in mind my preamp is old and has no digital inputs...

 

[bandphan]

""Used, I have found two or three for sale in my city (Edmonton) for under $200. However , after some feedback Im wondering if what I read is correct (multiple times on a few different sites) that when using the ps3 analog outs for cd playback , the sound is bright. Im surprised that in blind tests that a cheep Sony cd player that is 20+ years old sounds "better" than the ps3…

Perception only""

I did this test blind numerous times with someone else changing the cables at "random"...

You say SPDIF? how would I use that with a ps3? I thought it was HDMI, optical, or RCA?

optical or sometimes called by the connector, toslink, carries the spdif format, ie digtal (sony phillips digital interconnect format)

 

[mibson]

optical or sometimes called by the connector, toslink, carries the spdif format, ie digtal (sony phillips digital interconnect format)

ok so there is optical on the back of my ps3...on my Arcam xeta 2 preamp I thought there was only RCA inputs, but I dont know much...
I dont have the manual, there are some yellow single inputs, I think, but they look just like a single(mono) RCA input, might these be digital inputs?
I have searched online for the manual and cant find it. I have never used the yellow connectors on the back of amps and I really dont know what they are...

 

[PENG]

ok so there is optical on the back of my ps3...on my Arcam xeta 2 preamp I thought there was only RCA inputs, but I dont know much...

Yes, there is one optical output at the back.

I dont have the manual, there are some yellow single inputs, I think, but they look just like a single(mono) RCA input, might these be digital inputs?

No, it is not yellow and it does not look like RCAs. It should have a little dust cover and if that cover is no longer there then it would look like a hole and that's where you plug in your optical cable.

I have searched online for the manual and cant find it. I have never used the yellow connectors on the back of amps and I really dont know what they are...

Try this link:

http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/Manuals/PS3

Be sure to download the right manual for your model.

By the way, there is no way the PS3 would sound worse than your 20 year old Sony CD player unless than old Sony is a high end model. There must be some other reasons that gave you the impression. May be you have very low tolerance to high frequencies such that you may find what is neutral as bright. I am not saying that is the case at all, just to name one example of many possibilities.

 

[mibson]

Yes, there is one optical output at the back.



No, it is not yellow and it does not look like RCAs. It should have a little dust cover and if that cover is no longer there then it would look like a hole and that's where you plug in your optical cable.



Try this link:

http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/Manuals/PS3

Be sure to download the right manual for your model.

Sorry I was unclear, I know what the optical output looks like on my ps3, it is on my Arcam Xeta2 preamp that Im wondering what the yellow input/outputs are, anyway Im 100% the xeta2 does NOT have any optical inputs so Im stuck with analog for now.

By the way, there is no way the PS3 would sound worse than your 20 year old Sony CD player unless than old Sony is a high end model. There must be some other reasons that gave you the impression. May be you have very low tolerance to high frequencies such that you may find what is neutral as bright. I am not saying that is the case at all, just to name one example of many possibilities.

It is not a high end one, my memory tells me it was one of the first cd players ever made...

Im really starting to wonder about audio settings on the ps3, I have seen the numerous settings and there are so many it is a bit intimidating. I have read of a few people solving sound issues with a ps3 with these settings. If Im using the analog out on a ps3 to a older preamp with no digital inputs, what output settings should I use on the ps3?

 

[PENG]

If Im using the analog out on a ps3 to a older preamp with no digital inputs, what output settings should I use on the ps3?

I doubt there is any settings for analogs. You've me curious enough to dig out the cheap analog cable that came with it to try out the analog outputs. It is too early to tell but the first CD I put it doesn't sound too bad at all. I am going to try a couple more CD's that I am familiar with and will let you know in a couple of hours.

 

[mibson]

I have tried a few other cds now and they sound great. I think my favorite band is very bright, and Im not used to having good speakers that reveal this.

There are settings when Im using the analog outs:

1) Output frequency
A) 48khz or B) 44.1/88.2/176.4 khz

Which should I be using?

2) Bit Mapping Type 1 or 1 or 3 ?

Which should I be using?

 

[adwilk]

Your PSB's have aluminum tweeters... Metal tweeters are usually gonna have a brighter, more forward sound. I think Bandphan said it better with the word "neutral" and I didn't mean to say your speakers weren't capable speakers.

One thing you have to grasp is that you are not listening to electronics, you are listening to the source material through your speakers. While electronics can make some minor minor differences in what you hear, they rarely actually "add" a signature. One exception to this would be some tube amp/preamps that CAN add a laid back feel. Perhaps you could try something like that. Some guy here did a review of a DAC with both tube and solid state preamp sections.

Either way, there is A TON of placebo when you're new to audio and you'll hear whatever you want to hear. Perhaps if you could explain how you were blind testing.... No disrespect, seriously, but I doubt that anyone who doesn't know what the yellow RCA jack is (composite, analog video) then I doubt the tests were setup correctly to make some real conclusions. (level matched being the most important).

You've got some new speakers, a PS3 and an amp, sit back and enjoy it all for a little while.

 

[PENG]

Your PSB's have aluminum tweeters... Metal tweeters are usually gonna have a brighter, more forward sound.

I know a lot of people probably believe in this and I do not know why. I am not aware of any scientic proof or basis for this, perhaps it is just another hearsay, or it is human nature to associate metal with brightness? By extension, people probably think B&W's diamond tweeters are bright too. Fortunately, if brightness means boost in certain high frequencies, we can always EQ it out.

 

[adwilk]

I know a lot of people probably believe in this and I do not know why. I am not aware of any scientic proof or basis for this, perhaps it is just another hearsay, or it is human nature to associate metal with brightness? By extension, people probably think B&W's diamond tweeters are bright too. Fortunately, if brightness means boost in certain high frequencies, we can always EQ it out.

I guess its more my experience than anything. Diamond isn't metal, PENG.

Most of the metal tweeters that I've listened to "seemed" brighter to me, even before I knew they were metal. When metal tweeters break up, they are a little more shrill. I guess its not an absolute, even soft domes can be bright too.

Please don't make me think logically.

 

[PENG]

Diamond isn't metal, PENG.

I knew that, but thanks for mentioning in case there were people who didn't LOL!! My point was, diamonds are pretty bright don't you think, oh almost forgot we are men, what do we know about diamond? I just go by hearsay.......

 

[adwilk]

I knew that, but thanks for mentioning in case there were people who didn't LOL!! My point was, diamonds are pretty bright don't you think, oh almost forgot we are men, what do we know about diamond? I just go by hearsay.......

I actually agree, I think the diamonds are a little bright, almost sparkly sounding...

 

[ParadigmDawg]

That's just silly talk boy.....

Your PSB's have aluminum tweeters... Metal tweeters are usually gonna have a brighter, more forward sound. .

 

[WmAx]

A properly utilized metal driver, and assuming also it's a well engineered driver, no coloration is going to present. I will back this up with credible perceptual research.

Of course, I doubt most speakers apply to both, or many, even one, of the above conditions....

Most retail speakers, regardless of cost, are just pure crap, if you ask me.....

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

Yes, a critical factor in my statement quoted above, is to read it in the original thread, in context. A neutral speaker system is needed to achieve the 'any sound you want' feature + powerful DSP like the Behringer DCX2496, of course.

Most speakers are fatally flawed from the beginning, so with major coloration already present, there is no way to achieve any sound you want; the coloration will always be in the way.

I can recommend speakers that are by default neutral, and will allow you to get any sound you want(within polar response limits and room acoustics of course). Auditioning in person is not even needed if you follow my instructions precisely. The actual sound you get in the end will be totally due to room acoustics and the settings you enter into the DCX2496. IN fact, stock sound of the speakers, whether you like it or not, is not relevant, since it's the neutral characteristic you need in the first place to make the customization of sound possible.

-Chris

 

[adwilk]

if you ask me.....

Nobody asked you.