cerwinmad

cerwinmad

Full Audioholic
I am running my CV VE-12 fronts with my Onkyo TXSR-503 reciever, and can get great sound levels with it, but i have seen videos on the net where people are getting alot more bass extension and volume using higher power amps. would i see much of an improvement using say a 200w p/c amp over the 130 watts my current reciever puts out? the woofers only get decent extension at levels just below clipping. they are rated at 300w, is this max input or an output measurement?
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
would i see much of an improvement using say a 200w p/c amp over the 130 watts my current reciever puts out? the woofers only get decent extension at levels just below clipping. they are rated at 300w, is this max input or an output measurement?
To answer your first question, going from 130 to 200 would only get marginal gains in absolute output. You would have to increase power substantially for any appreciable increase in spl. The 300w rating of your speaker is most likely it's peak suggested power handling capability, but provided you are sending unclipped signals, they should handle much more without a problem.

If you really need more output via increasing amp power, you will have to spend a bunch of ducats to get a noticeable increase in volume. If that Onkyo has pre-outs you could purchase a more powerful multichannel amp from, say, Emotiva (Their xpa5 is conservatively rated at 200w, but it can put out unclipped peaks far in excess of that; I strongly suspect the Emo's dynamic capabilities would far exceed those of the Onkyo.) This would be a pretty expensive solution to a seemingly minor shortcoming.

If you are going to spend a bunch of money on this percieved shortcoming in your system, I would suggest buying subs instead of new amp/reciever, and implementing the bass management in your Onkyo. If you send only signals above 80hz (only a suggested crossover point, experiment yourself for best settings) to your mains you will be optimizing the Onkyo's available power by relieving it from producing power-hungry bass signals, and resulting in more power available to those frequencies the Onkyo is asked to push. You'll get better dynamics and louder overall output that way. Let the sub's drivers get the excursion and relieve that duty from your mains. That's what subs do best.

And don't overdo it to the point that you need to call Phonak in 10 years. (Phonak makes hearing aids, fyi.) CV's can get to concert sound pressure levels.
 
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cerwinmad

cerwinmad

Full Audioholic
Cheers, i do have a velodyne sub and have crossover set to 80hz, although i have the fronts set to large as the 12" fronts produce wonderful bass, very deep and also well defined. i would love to get an external amp to try. i am very happy with my setup as is for volume and sound quality, i just want to get the full capability of the speaker. thanks for your input. I know people bag on the CV , but for movies they are simply awesome!! detailed music listening is not a requsite for me although i love the sound and find them very accurate on direct mode. again the power i have to have movies LOUD and not worry about killing them is the reason i got them. there is always better but i would be spending alot more money to get it.
 
croseiv

croseiv

Audioholic Samurai
Also, there's what may be required, and then there's what you want....:)
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Given that you are running a sub + mains full range and something is missing, I wonder if it is in the upper bass range (between say 100 and 200Hz.) It could be the interaction between your speakers and the room.

Have you tried playing with the positioning of your mains at all?
 
cerwinmad

cerwinmad

Full Audioholic
Theres nothing missing apart from in my listening position i dont get the fullness in the lower frequencys, just feel them, but im near the side wall, on the sub. if i sit on the couch on the opposite wall its fuller. i cant place the sub on the opposite wall due to a doorway. i cant really move the mains much as my only other option is having the tv in the corner and a speaker on each wall, which sounds crap!!! its very nice sounding and deep, just wondering how much more i can squeeze from the fronts in terms of volume and clarity with a larger amp. i am been silly though as at three quarters full volume, with no clipping apparent and sound is clear and nice you cannot hear some one talk beside you at 10 feet away, and my stand alone garage which is about 20 feet from the house vibrates and rattles lol. i only have it at about half way on movies and its awesome. thanks for the help guys, again i am very happy with the setup, just have the "how good can it get" bug.
 
C

cfrizz

Senior Audioholic
The vast majority of receivers simply don't have what it takes to push speakers to their full capacity and you would see an improvement in your speaker performance with more power.

However, your receiver doesn't have preouts to connect a separate amplifier, so you would have to upgrade that first.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Theres nothing missing apart from in my listening position i dont get the fullness in the lower frequencys, just feel them, but im near the side wall, on the sub. if i sit on the couch on the opposite wall its fuller. ....
There you go, your answer. Not much you can do to change what you hear from your setup as is. It is a room thing with the lows and seating position.
 
cerwinmad

cerwinmad

Full Audioholic
i convinced my wife to let me put my chair on the other side of the room so i could get out of the bass null, and moved my sub back a couple of inchs. alot better now. i wish i could sit in the center of the room but it leads through to a hallway and the bedrooms so thats not an option. another thing i was wondering, the speakers are rear ported, and the manual recommends having them 30cm out from the wall. it also says you can adjust this distance to suit. what would be a minimum distance? they are currently 22cm out to line up with the screen. Thanks again for the opinions. oh and not flaming me for been a lowly CV owner!!! (I have a velodyne sub!!)
 
croseiv

croseiv

Audioholic Samurai
The vast majority of receivers simply don't have what it takes to push speakers to their full capacity and you would see an improvement in your speaker performance with more power.

However, your receiver doesn't have preouts to connect a separate amplifier, so you would have to upgrade that first.
Muy importante! This is very true. I overlooked the pre-outs aspect of your set-up. The 503 doesn't have them and you won't find them in the Onkyo line-up until you get to the 700 series or higher.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Theres nothing missing apart from in my listening position i dont get the fullness in the lower frequencys, just feel them, but im near the side wall, on the sub. if i sit on the couch on the opposite wall its fuller.
From what you are describing here, it sounds like you are getting an over-emphasis of some frequencies at the rear wall due to room effects and you like the 'fullness' that gives. If you listen in a corner, does it get even more full?
 
J

just listening

Audioholic
Play with your room and speaker positioning first, before dropping anymore coin. Secondly, remember that receivers are designed for convenience rather than muscle power.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Cheers, i do have a velodyne sub and have crossover set to 80hz, although i have the fronts set to large as the 12" fronts produce wonderful bass, very deep and also well defined. i would love to get an external amp to try. i am very happy with my setup as is for volume and sound quality, i just want to get the full capability of the speaker. thanks for your input. I know people bag on the CV , but for movies they are simply awesome!! detailed music listening is not a requsite for me although i love the sound and find them very accurate on direct mode. again the power i have to have movies LOUD and not worry about killing them is the reason i got them. there is always better but i would be spending alot more money to get it.

If you have the option, set your crossover to 60hz rather than 80hz to take better advantage of the mains, while allowing greater dynamic capability for them by alleviating some strain on the receiver having to play so deep.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
i convinced my wife to let me put my chair on the other side of the room so i could get out of the bass null, and moved my sub back a couple of inchs. alot better now. i wish i could sit in the center of the room but it leads through to a hallway and the bedrooms so thats not an option. another thing i was wondering, the speakers are rear ported, and the manual recommends having them 30cm out from the wall. it also says you can adjust this distance to suit. what would be a minimum distance? they are currently 22cm out to line up with the screen. Thanks again for the opinions. oh and not flaming me for been a lowly CV owner!!! (I have a velodyne sub!!)
You could temporarily pull it out to 30cm and see if it makes a large enough difference, hard to do psychologically speaking. I doubt it will matter much as it is already out a large percentage of the recommended distance.
 
cerwinmad

cerwinmad

Full Audioholic
If you have the option, set your crossover to 60hz rather than 80hz to take better advantage of the mains, while allowing greater dynamic capability for them by alleviating some strain on the receiver having to play so deep.
i have it set at 80HZ, but i have the mains set to large so they get full range signal (the onkyo still sends an lfe signal to the sub in stereo mode, even with the mains set large) i could set them to small, and lower the crossover but it seems a waste as the mains are good down to 28Hz according to the manual and i have tried it and did get less deep bass, suprisinly its not boomy at all, they are very defined and blend well with the sub, scenes such as the iron hide one in transformers are awesome, you feel the pressure wave, and the transformers footsteps feel like they are in my house. also the center seems strained at 60Hz crossover. my next goal is to get say a XPA 5 and a reciever with pre outs. i want to stick with onkyo, the 503 handles alot of volume for long periods, it gets hot though, after an hour of high volume music listening it reachs 60+ degrees celcius, most its got to is 78 degrees celcius!! didnt cut out amazinly and has full ventilation. thanks for the opinions guys, check out my members thread, criticism greatly accepted!!!
 
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