Power rating for "multichannel stereo" mode in receivers

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pcosmic

Audioholic Intern
Hmmmm I have nothing relevant to post to this thread I just really want to know

WHAT the heck is uugeee? Am I spelling that right?
We learn vocabulario like that from our commander-in-chief here in America. It's a patriotic expression.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I'm trying to make you ecstatic while contributing significant savings to your wallet.
You still haven't explained this part. What savings are you talking about? If anything your method requires more speakers, more cable, more amplification, more effort and more power for stereo music. All in an effort to "mimic" ugly sound. I'm looking for where the "savings" part kicks in...

If you can convince me I'll set up like your diagram. Hearsay will not be accepted!
 
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pcosmic

Audioholic Intern
Well, I'm already pretty ecstatic with the sound I have now so you're a bit late. Savings? What savings??
My Elac Adantes in 4.2 multistereo that cost 5k for the four speakers on sale beat the crap out of my buddy's 100k 2 channel Von Schweikert system dawg. Come, come join me on this ecstatic multi-stereo journey. Your laughter will be incessant when you note that your wallet's still full.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
My Elac Adantes in 4.2 multistereo that cost 5k for the four speakers on sale beat the crap out of my buddy's 100k 2 channel Von Schweikert system dawg. Come, come join me on this ecstatic multi-stereo journey. Your laughter will be incessant when you note that your wallet's still full.
I'm trying to make you ecstatic while contributing significant savings to your wallet.
You still haven't explained this part. What savings are you talking about? If anything your method requires more speakers, more cable, more amplification, more effort and more power for stereo music. All in an effort to "mimic" ugly sound. I'm looking for where the "savings" part kicks in...

If you can convince me I'll set up like your diagram. Hearsay will not be accepted!

*Edit: 100k and "Von Schweikert" do not impress me and have nothing to do with this conversation.
 
P

pcosmic

Audioholic Intern
You still haven't explained this part. What savings are you talking about? If anything your method requires more speakers, more cable, more amplification, more effort and more power for stereo music. All in an effort to "mimic" ugly sound. I'm looking for where the "savings" part kicks in...

If you can convince me I'll set up like your diagram. Hearsay will not be accepted!

*Edit: 100k and "Von Schweikert" do not impress me and have nothing to do with this conversation.
Elac Adante AF61, Quantity of 2 = 3000 dollars
Elac Adante AS-61, Quantity of 2 + stands = 2000 dollars
Rythmik L12 Sub, Quantity of 2 = 1120 dollars
Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 Factory Refurb Receiver with warranty: 1200 dollars
Diffusion panels for front and back walls = 100 dollars
(Ensure that the 2 fronts and 2 back speakers are the same distance from respective walls)
Ceiling absorption panels = 100 dollars
Total = 7520 dollars

Von Schweikert Reference 2 channel system with electronics = ~100k

Savings to our friendly neighborhood audioholic warlord Pogre's wallet = ~92,480 USD
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Samurai
We learn vocabulario like that from our commander-in-chief here in America. It's a patriotic expression.
.......... Ur pretty funny I already like you do you have some pictures of your setup Id like to see this bad boy setup in action plus if I ever decide to try it out I'll have a reference of what it looks like
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't think you understand the multistereo mode too well. I have a carefully tweaked multistereo 4.2 setup that sounds uuuuggeee...it's a cheaper way to mimic that uuggee sound from several hundred thousand dollar 2 channel systems if you got it right IMO. I had a power amp plugged into the receiver pre-outs for the front 2 channels until now to guarantee power. Speakers are 87 db sensitive , 6 ohms with a 100 hz dip down to 5 ohms. Last night's storm took out my power amp (forgot to unplug it). Hence, i've been contemplating getting another power amp or sticking with the receiver as is for now (the reason i posted this question).
Not sure what an uuggee sound is, but it sounds very nasty and well the wrong side of pleasant.

You sound like some one with the ideal qualifications for testing receivers to destruction.

Sorry about your amp, you should look into whole house surge protection.
 
Last edited:
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
While multich stereo modes do require more power, personally I only use them for parties, just don't like that mode for normal listening and if I am going to use multich play, I'll use a surround mode. I can't think of an avr that rates in ACD because that's just not going to impress as much as a 2ch rating....marketing wins. As was said, it could be 30%, it could be 70% (and the Denon/Marantz thing I believe is for 5ch driven only, not all the possible amp channels), could even be more, depends on unit. Just not a very important thing for consideration IMO. There are many who do like two or three stereo pairs for some reason, look at all those collecting "vintage" 2ch receivers and doing just that with the A&B settings.....kinda nutty to me but YMMV.

ps as far as 4ohm rated speakers, yeah an avr may not be the best tool for the job, but depends on your playback demands. Better to get better designed speakers for your gear.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
That does not pass the sniff test. That would require at least a 700 watt power supply and that would be assuming above average efficiency.
But you have no idea what are their power supplies rated for, unfortunately very few manufacturers published their power supply rating. Some do provide a so called "power consumption" spec that is almost meaningless. Some provide two numbers, one for "maximum" such as the newer Yamaha's, still almost meaningless without more details such as at what phase angle/power factor, duration etc..etc.. So go ahead and guess all we want..:D
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Elac Adante AF61, Quantity of 2 = 3000 dollars
Elac Adante AS-61, Quantity of 2 + stands = 2000 dollars
Rythmik L12 Sub, Quantity of 2 = 1120 dollars
Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 Factory Refurb Receiver with warranty: 1200 dollars
Diffusion panels for front and back walls = 100 dollars
(Ensure that the 2 fronts and 2 back speakers are the same distance from respective walls)
Ceiling absorption panels = 100 dollars
Total = 7520 dollars

Von Schweikert Reference 2 channel system with electronics = ~100k

Savings to our friendly neighborhood audioholic warlord Pogre's wallet = ~92,480 USD
Wait... You're telling me that running out and spending $7520 on gear and setting it up so that it will mimic ugly sound when I already have a competent system is gonna somehow save me money? I don't get it. I have no idea where you're getting $92,480 saved. I would never spend even close to that on audio gear to begin wth.

I already have a system that sounds huge, with a big soundstage and spot on imaging with only 2 speakers. Really fills the room, you know? Why would I spend anymore at all? The only way you could save me money is if you just wanna give me some. Then I can spend your money on whatever I'm planning to buy next, like groceries or something, then I'll have saved money.... omg... Brainstorm! Hey!

cartoon-light-bulb-vector-18784925_copy_282x431-1.jpg


If you send me enough I'll get a nice standalone Blu Ray/SACD player and get some music that's actually mastered in 5.1. That'll save me money AND improve my 5.2 (or 4.2) audio! Now I'm excited! Let's move this into pm's so we can get the details ironed out and you can send me however much you want. You could even help me pick out a nice player and suggest some good recordings!

I mean, if you really care...
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
.......... Ur pretty funny I already like you do you have some pictures of your setup Id like to see this bad boy setup in action plus if I ever decide to try it out I'll have a reference of what it looks like
Yes! Pics! We love pics!

@pcosmic I'm much more of a visual guy anyway. Maybe seeing your setup will inspire me!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
While multich stereo modes do require more power, personally I only use them for parties, just don't like that mode for normal listening and if I am going to use multich play, I'll use a surround mode. I can't think of an avr that rates in ACD because that's just not going to impress as much as a 2ch rating....marketing wins. As was said, it could be 30%, it could be 70% (and the Denon/Marantz thing I believe is for 5ch driven only, not all the possible amp channels), could even be more, depends on unit. Just not a very important thing for consideration IMO. There are many who do like two or three stereo pairs for some reason, look at all those collecting "vintage" 2ch receivers and doing just that with the A&B settings.....kinda nutty to me but YMMV.

ps as far as 4ohm rated speakers, yeah an avr may not be the best tool for the job, but depends on your playback demands. Better to get better designed speakers for your gear.
I don't think you can fault speakers for dropping to 5 ohms. That is almost certainly a sign of properly implemented BSC. I will fault the receiver. Any amp that will not drive four ohm loads is rubbish and not worth spending money on. Ability to drive four ohm loads should be a minimum spec. and NOT an exception as it is now. That is going to encourage a generation of substandard speaker designs. Receiver amps have taken a huge step backwards of late.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
But you have no idea what are their power supplies rated for, unfortunately very few manufacturers published their power supply rating. Some do provide a so called "power consumption" spec that is almost meaningless. Some provide two numbers, one for "maximum" such as the newer Yamaha's, still almost meaningless without more details such as at what phase angle/power factor, duration etc..etc.. So go ahead and guess all we want..:D
A look under the hood makes 700 watt power supply delivery unlikely.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't think you can fault speakers for dropping to 5 ohms. That is almost certainly a sign of properly implemented BSC. I will fault the receiver. Any amp that will not drive four ohm loads is rubbish and not worth spending money on. Ability to drive four ohm loads should be a minimum spec. and NOT an exception as it is now. That is going to encourage a generation of substandard speaker designs. Receiver amps have taken a huge step backwards of late.
I was thinking more of nominal 4 ohm speakers dropping below 4 ohms. I haven't had issues with receivers particularly even with speakers that drop to 4 ohm. If you want to use lower impedance speakers then get an avr with pre-outs and use a power amp would be my suggestion. Get the tool for the job. Don't expect avrs to be the tool for every job....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
A look under the hood makes 700 watt power supply delivery unlikely.
Not if you look at the AVR-X8500H's custom wound/made transformer. Guarantee that could have been rated more than 700 watt continuous.

重さ8.2kgのEIトランスを搭載。強力な電源部を実現

13ch分のパワーアンプを駆動する電源部も強力だ。13ch同時出力時にもクリーンかつ安定した電源供給を行うべく、専用のEIコアトランスを開発。コアサイズは111mm、積圧は90mm。質量はトランス単体で8.2kgにもなる。ちなみに9chアンプの従来モデル AVR-X7200WAのEIトランスは6.1kgで、これと比較してもその重さがわかる。

Power transformer can be loaded to more than 25% for hours and hours, often much higher without sustaining damage. I am sure most designers for audio amplifiers would count on that because they know for such applications, "continuous" only need to be continuous for minutes, or even a few hours at a time, but definitely not for days like industrial and utility applications.
 

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