Polk RTiA7 What am I missing?

[Phase 2]

Those Polk Rti-A7's are a decent speaker and at 299 each is a good buy. They are big though.

 

[StrokerAce]

Correct: it shouldn’t hurt anything. Simplest solution is something wasn’t set up properly. In your descriptions, you kept mentioning that you had them connected to the Surrounds. Specifically, did you have the Rear/Back posts connected (which are the assignable ones)? Likewise, have you tried connecting any speakers to them at all, say as Zone2 stereo and testing to make certain something in the amp stage isnt wonky?

Hypothetically, your best bet for playing around with passive bi-amping would involve having two external stereo amplifiers, four monoblocks, or one 5-channel amp (like Emotiva or Outlaw, for example, where each amp channel is rated to put out a ‘true’ xxx w per channel, all channels driven)... If you were to do this, take a y-splitter from your L-Front pre-out, plug in to amp channel 1 and 2, remove the speaker jumpers, and connect amp channel 1 to the HF terminal, and amp channel 2 to the LF. Repeat for the R-Front and amp channels 3,4.
If you decide to seriously follow this endeavor, keep your amps matching, and for each speaker, make certain your speaker wires are the same length (left and right can each be different lengths, but left HF and left LF MUST be the same).
Mind, I’ve kept that description on the simplified side, without even bringing in the value of bi-amping a matching center. Needless to say, you already know how most of us feel about passive bi-amping. It won’t hurt anything if you do it right, and if there is anything to be gained from it... it is generally considered to be very minimal and not really audible.
But using the AVR to do it, as I mentioned above, only takes juice away from all the other speaker terminals as you plug in more sources.

Hope that helps.

It does thank you. I really think my issue is that since I am playing my music through the computer and it is going through a Realtek Audio driver there is no real way to set up the speaker configuration in Realtek to recognize bi amping. I haven't figured out yet how to bypass the speaker configuration process and send audio signal straight to the Denon so it can do it's job. Like I said, no more $$ at this time to do anymore than use what I have. In undoing the bi amp this receiver does seem to have enough juice to power the Polk so I think I will save myself the headaches and stick to that. Now it's time to do the sub crawl!

 

[Leemix]

The computer has nothing to do with any bi amping, thats only the receiver.
The Sub crawl is a very good thing to do. Hope you find a good spot that works.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ryanosaur]

It does thank you. I really think my issue is that since I am playing my music through the computer and it is going through a Realtek Audio driver there is no real way to set up the speaker configuration in Realtek to recognize bi amping. I haven't figured out yet how to bypass the speaker configuration process and send audio signal straight to the Denon so it can do it's job. Like I said, no more $$ at this time to do anymore than use what I have. In undoing the bi amp this receiver does seem to have enough juice to power the Polk so I think I will save myself the headaches and stick to that. Now it's time to do the sub crawl!

Not encouraging you to spend more money. I was curious too, and spent some time learning about it. Frankly, you'd be better off just getting a good amp down the line, but only if you find you aren't getting the right voume level at your LP.
As I am largely unfamiliar with how your computer is operating... or for that matter with any non-Mac interface, I can't help out there. I did want to ask though, how the signal is getting to your AVR? (Did a quick re-read, but didn't catch it.) Seems like the AVR should handle whats coming in, even if its being sent 5.1 info. If you aren't using an ethernet cable for your LAN, I'd recommend starting there, as wired communication has worked so much better for me than streaming over WIFI. That said, when I use a multi-channel source disc in my BR player, the Marantz AVR detects and switches automatically (HDMI as interconnect), be it movie or music... same from TV as source (Toslink as interconnect).
Anyway, perhaps experiment with that. However, as I'm typing, your codec or soundcard, shouldn't care how you have your amps set up down-stream. Their job is to just send a signal out to the AVR which will process accordingly.

 

[ryanosaur]

The computer has nothing to do with any bi amping, thats only the receiver.
The Sub crawl is a very good thing to do. Hope you find a good spot that works.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And yes, +1 for the crawl, too! It took me a little bit to start hearing the differences, so be patient. I tried Pink Noise, LF test tones, rhythmic LF test tones, and music. Music worked best for me. YMMV. Make certain you are just using your sub only, though!

 

[lovinthehd]

If you decide to seriously follow this endeavor, keep your amps matching, and for each speaker, make certain your speaker wires are the same length (left and right can each be different lengths, but left HF and left LF MUST be the same).

I doubt there's any more reason for the bi-wires to be same length than for other speakers (altho probably just easier to make them the same length in any case)....curious, where did you get this from, though?

 

[ryanosaur]

I doubt there's any more reason for the bi-wires to be same length than for other speakers (altho probably just easier to make them the same length in any case)....curious, where did you get this from, though?

When I thought (HA!) I was going to be the coolest guy around (Ha-Ha!)... I did so much reading on bi-amping last year... SMDH. *facepalm
So quoting a specific source isn't going to happen.
That said, when Bi-wiring and Bi-amping, they always specify that the wires going to any one speaker need to match as close as possible, as if it were a single wire instead of two. I remember one guy commenting that an inch didn't matter, but that feet could when going to the same speakers passive XO network. Same reason why they always seem to recommend using the same amps for passive bi-amping; a just-in-case so you don't end up with a delay in the low or high signal line of the same speaker if there is a difference in processing between two amps.
Yes, I understand a nanosecond here or there doesn't really matter. And that's what... like 3' of speaker wire?
...But unlike Left speaker vs Right speaker, where the cable lengths aren't so important (within reason), every source I read said that Buy-bi-anything-ing was potentially more stringent in tolerance (my word choice there).

(Yes, this was almost more than a passing fancy. I'm so VERY glad I chose not to pursue it, though!)

I know the rules and complexity change significantly when employing Active Bi-Amping, and this is where my limited Amplifier Education really shows. Beyond employing external Active XOs prior to the amp stage, I know people sometimes run lower-wattage Tubes for Highs and higher-wattage SS amps for Lows. I presume there is a way to address possible delay in different Amp stages at the active XO(?). Or maybe that just doesn't even com into play.

As always, if there is something I have wrong, I greatly appreciate the correction!!!

 

[lovinthehd]

When I thought (HA!) I was going to be the coolest guy around (Ha-Ha!)... I did so much reading on bi-amping last year... SMDH. *facepalm
So quoting a specific source isn't going to happen.
That said, when Bi-wiring and Bi-amping, they always specify that the wires going to any one speaker need to match as close as possible, as if it were a single wire instead of two. I remember one guy commenting that an inch didn't matter, but that feet could when going to the same speakers passive XO network. Same reason why they always seem to recommend using the same amps for passive bi-amping; a just-in-case so you don't end up with a delay in the low or high signal line of the same speaker if there is a difference in processing between two amps.
Yes, I understand a nanosecond here or there doesn't really matter. And that's what... like 3' of speaker wire?
...But unlike Left speaker vs Right speaker, where the cable lengths aren't so important (within reason),every source I read said that Buy-bi-anything-ing was potentially more stringent in tolerance (my word choice there).

(Yes, this was almost more than a passing fancy. I'm so VERY glad I chose not to pursue it, though!)

I know the rules and complexity change significantly when employing Active Bi-Amping, and this is where my limited Amplifier Education really shows. Beyond employing external Active XOs prior to the amp stage, I know people sometimes run lower-wattage Tubes for Highs and higher-wattage SS amps for Lows. I presume there is a way to address possible delay in different Amp stages at the active XO(?). Or maybe that just doesn't even com into play.

As always, if there is something I have wrong, I greatly appreciate the correction!!!

Not really a correction but since delay in speaker wire at typical speeds translates to something like 1 nanosecond per foot or perhaps a bit more, it's really meaningless even at a difference of a few feet to 50 feet. Just not a concern.

ps Except for perhaps the OCD....could keep them awake at night

 

[GrimSurfer]

Bi wiring used to have a place in the universe when active crossovers were used. But that's hardly the norm any more.

There are places for bi-amping, such as:

1. For OCD ppl who want to maximize stereo separation, or

2. The audio fanatic, whose pushing huge (like 1000W RMS) amounts of power and wishes to keep high level speaker cables short and resistance low by placing mono lock amps closer to loudspeakers.

Both are kind of on the fringe... there's some validity behind them, but today's amps perform at such a high level (stereo separation values are typically in the 90 dB and up range, something like 10 ga wire is rated to handle 20-30 amps of *continuous* current), that it's usually more of an affectation than anything else.

For mere mortals and practical thinkers, biwiring and biamping is a bit over the top.

 

[lovinthehd]

Bi wiring used to have a place in the universe when active crossovers were used. But that's hardly the norm any more.

There are places for bi-amping, such as:

1. For OCD ppl who want to maximize stereo separation, or

2. The audio fanatic, whose pushing huge (like 1000W RMS) amounts of power and wishes to keep high level speaker cables short and resistance low by placing mono lock amps closer to loudspeakers.

Both are kind of on the fringe... there's some validity behind them, but today's amps perform at such a high level (stereo separation values are typically in the 90 dB and up range, something like 10 ga wire is rated to handle 20-30 amps of *continuous* current), that it's usually more of an affectation than anything else.

For mere mortals and practical thinkers, biwiring and biamping is a bit over the top.

Bi-wiring when used with active crossovers simply becomes bi-amping as opposed to what bi-wiring usually refers to.

90dB of separation is relatively meaningless to the vinylphiles who are willing to put up with maybe 30dB

 

[StrokerAce]

To all those that have responded to this thread and given your help I greatly appreciate it. I tried several things for the bi-amping including playing from a direct source such as the built in tuner and a CD player. The sound from the Polk's bi-amped was simply poor no matter what I did. I know I had everything hooked up properly and checked the connections and settings several times, even with a Denon rep walking me through the settings. After just straight amping and running the Audyssey they sound as they are suppose to, incredible. I have no need to bi amp as they sound great on their own. Once again, Thank you.

 

[-Jim-]

[QUOTE="90dB of separation is relatively meaningless to the vinylphiles who are willing to put up with maybe 30dB [/QUOTE]

Ouch!