Political Spectrum

[furrycute]

Reading through that immigration thread started me thinking do we have more conservatives or liberals on this board.

So here is a poll to show everyone where you stand on the political spectrum.

To simplify things, everyone who is center left belongs to the left (liberal) camp. Everyone who is center right belongs to the right (conservative) camp. If you are strictly neutral, then choose center.

I am a center left, so I count myself as a liberal.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Reading through that immigration thread started me thinking do we have more conservatives or liberals on this board.

Conservative. There. That was easy wasn't it?!

...here is a poll to show everyone where you stand on the political spectrum.

Sorry to be a party pooper but I don't subscribe to classifying individuals. That said, whilst I'll not actually vote, you may classify me as liberal if you like, since that's what everyone'll brand me anyway.

 

[furrycute]

I know it's hard to generalize things, especially one's political views. But for the sake of simplicity and clarity, I just put up three choices. Otherwise we'll be sitting here reviewing Excel charts all day long...

 

[Haoleb]

where's anarchist?

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Whichever one lets me further myself by stepping on the backs of others without having to do any work or suffer any risk myself.

 

[furrycute]

where's anarchist?

Sorry, too much chaos factor for this poll...

 

[furrycute]

Whichever one lets me further myself by stepping on the backs of others without having to do any work or suffer any risk myself.

This can fit the profile of either a leftist or a rightist.

Leftist parasite: A welfare bum.

Rightist parasite: A war profiteer making untold billions in profits and getting absurd tax cuts, both through political connections


Both are parasites, the only difference lies in the scale of the infection and in the audacity of those willing to impose such parasitic practices upon society.

 

[highfihoney]

I cant clasify myself as left or right,all politicans make me want to poop my pants

The politicans on the left are sissy's.

The politicans on the right are outta their freakin minds.

The guys between sissy & maniac have no voice.

The only politican i ever really liked was Bill Clinton,i may have been under a placebo effect though, after hearing about the cigar episode with the big fat girl,after i heard that the man could do no wrong as far as i was concerned.

 

[Yamahaluver]

I would rather be a nationalist than any left or right or center.

 

[Davidt1]

I can't stand the Bush administration and their lies about the war in Iraq and how they use the war to benefit themselves and their friends with our tax money. Does that make me a liberal? Hell no.

It burns me up to see our quality of life being slowly destroyed by uncontrolled immigration. Am I am conservative? No.

I think those left/right labels rob people of their individuality and goad them into thinking like a herd.

 

[mike c]

I think those left/right labels rob people of their individuality and goad them into thinking like a herd.

coincidentally, I watched some Chris Rock vids on youtube talking about the exact same thing. I watched all the youtube vids again, but couldn't find again to post here ... but generally, what he said was: "anybody who has made up his mind before hearing the issue is a fool" ... "people can be conservative on some topics, and liberal on others"

 

[Geno]

I'm a Pragmatist

coincidentally, I watched some Chris Rock vids on youtube talking about the exact same thing. I watched all the youtube vids again, but couldn't find again to post here ... but generally, what he said was: "anybody who has made up his mind before hearing the issue is a fool" ... "people can be conservative on some topics, and liberal on others"

That's how I see myself. One of my favorite quotes is: "If you're in your 20s and aren't a Liberal, you have no heart. If you're in your 50s and aren't a Conservative, you have no brain."

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

"If you're in your 20s and aren't a Liberal, you have no heart. If you're in your 50s and aren't a Conservative, you have no brain."

LOL.....

At least liberalism is something many grow out of as they grow in age, wisdom, and experience.

 

[Davemcc]

I don't think there's any classifying by left, center, right anymore. Let me explain. What is traditionally "the right" is composed of two distinct, competing and increasingly incompatible philosophies. The first is the economic conservative who places a high value on free markets, limited government and protection of rights and civil liberties. These people have a rather libertarian view and lament the expansion of the gov't and its infringement upon people's lives. Disclaimer - This is me.

The "other right" consists of social conservatives intent on using the government's power to limit citizens' actions to their world view, i.e. abortion, same sex marriage, drugs, prostitution, sex education in schools, and other moral issues. This would be the " religious right", the God Squad, God's Army, the Moral Majority, Bible Thumpers and GW Bush.

This same dichotomy exists on the so-called left. In one camp, there are the socialists that push for universal state health coverage, expanded welfare, union activism, higher taxes to cover the expense and fair trade rather than free trade. Socialists want a nanny state that taxes the rich and gives to the poor, all the while adding restrictions to domestic economic activity to benefit the "working class" or the environment.

But also on the left are the ACLU types that are smart enough not to be lured into outright socialism, but still want to use the enforcement power of the government to compel their agenda. These people promote such policies as anti-hate laws, hiring quotas, pay equity and other social "equalization" laws. To be honest, the only problem I have with the ACLU types is their penchant for pushing intrusive laws that restrict individual civil liberties for the supposed benefit of "society". I actually appreciate the work they have done ridding North America of the latent Puritan morality that's defined the moral tone of the continent for centuries. In one sense, they fight for civil liberties and in another, against.

That's how I see the political spectrum as it is today. Tell me I'm right or tell me I'm wrong, but please, tell me why I'm right or wrong.

 

[Buckle-meister]

At least liberalism is something many grow out of as they grow in age, wisdom, and experience.

...and wealth!

...there are the socialists that push for...fair trade rather than free trade.

How about fair free trade? Can't the two go hand in hand?

 

[obscbyclouds]

That's how I see myself. One of my favorite quotes is: "If you're in your 20s and aren't a Liberal, you have no heart. If you're in your 50s and aren't a Conservative, you have no brain."

That's a Winston Churchill quote if i'm not mistaken. Just giving credit so we don't get sued.

As for me, I'm not sure that I fit into any of the categories. I'm conservative on some issues: Economics, Abortion, Gun Control, and I'm liberal on others: Gay rights/marriage, civil liberties, limited social programs.

Forget the politicians, they aren't liberal or conservative, they're only out to get themselves re-elected. Power corrupts. On the War and on Border control, it seems none of them agree with my position.

 

[emorphien]

It burns me up to see our quality of life being slowly destroyed by uncontrolled immigration. Am I am conservative? No.

I think those left/right labels rob people of their individuality and goad them into thinking like a herd.

Agreed although I'd more specifically say that the parties do. Being left or right is one thing, being republican or democrat is another. And it seems a lot of people that claim to be one can't seem to realize it's OK if they don't agree with everything that party does.

I'm somewhat morally conservative but more politically liberal, overall my politics probably wind up somewhere just slightly left of central.

Using labels in general leads to misunderstanding and generalizations, and leads to people believing too much that all topics are black and white. I think our current political climate of ignorance of what the other is thinking is the unfortunate extension of this.

 

[Davemcc]

How about fair free trade? Can't the two go hand in hand?

Yes, but no. Free trade is fair. It means that parties are allowed to enter into trade agreements, voluntarily and without fraud or coercion, to determine the value and terms of goods and services transfers. This is inherently fair and presumes that the participants are politically and socially free to conduct their own affairs.

There are two types of fair trade, the first being the type where certain companies are set up of pay farmers, etc more pay than multinational corporations might in order to share the wealth more equitably. This generally raises the consumer price of the product, yet this can still be considered a form of free trade since all participants transact voluntarily, including the end consumer who voluntarily overpays for the product for social reasons.

The damaging form of fair trade may be more commonly known as managed trade. This type of trade imposes trade quotas, tariffs and other limitations upon the parties that are trying to negotiate an agreement. This form of fair trade is being strongly advocated by unions, like the CAW, to limit the flow of goods from China and Korea, particularly Korean cars. It is an attempt to stem the flow of cheap goods from foreign sources in an attempt to protect the market share and profitability domestic industries. The end result of this can only be increased prices and fewer choices for consumers, never mind the loss of freedom to both the supplier, distributor and consumer to negotiate voluntary contracts legally.

Ultimately, free trade is fair, but fair trade (i.e. managed trade) is neither free nor fair.

 

[furrycute]

But what will be the consequences of such global scale free trade?

America cannot indefinitely keep on buying these cheap products from China and Korea.

 

[Davemcc]

But what will be the consequences of such global scale free trade?

America cannot indefinitely keep on buying these cheap products from China and Korea.

The winner in free trade is the consumer. When Hyundai sells a product similar to a domestic automaker for, say, $2,000 less, it is just as if the Korean workers gave the American consumer a $2,000 gift. Protectionism that denies the consumer the option to purchase Korean cars will raise the price and reduce competition. The consumer will pay more, yet still receive just a car. It is ripping off millions of consumers in favor of propping up the autoworkers.

The loser is the business that makes uncompetitive use of its resources. These resources (labor, material, capital) will be utilized more effectively once they are released from their uncompetitive uses. It will be a paradigm shift, but one that is survivable if government will allow it. Seriously, government cannot create jobs, it can only chase them overseas. Various layers of business taxes, regulations, restrictions and red tape are disincentives to investment and utilization of resources in a competitive manner.

Free trade, which implies a certain level of non-interference by government, will drive a healthy, vibrant economy that both foreign and domestic citizens will benefit from.

For the best, simplest, most concise and effective explanations, see the writings of Frederic Bastiat.