Please pray for Peace in Thailand.

[lsiberian]

This was the place of my last mission trip and the people there are very dear to me. I'm at a loss for words. I wish I were there with them during this difficult time. Please pray the violence would stop and peace would be restored.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Werd man.

I've been fortunate enough to have been all over the world, and Thailand is the only place I have been where people consistently invited me into their home. They fed me (after Buddha, of course), taught me, and truly opened themselves and their families to me.... and asked for /nothing/ in return. Altruism I've rarely seen. I was so floored by the people I met in Thailand, I still remember them and wonder what they would do when I'm in difficult situations.

I wish them peace.

 

[jamie2112]

I have always loved Thailand,I am sorry to hear of this violence and I wish for it to stop as well.

 

[lsiberian]

the situation is calming down. Pray it stays that way.

 

[Chu Gai]

When the existing government looks to control internet access and radio stations, mounts billboard campaigns that encourage people to report the wrong types of websites, just what is it that you're praying for? For people who are willing to face overwhelming force and certain death armed with slingshots, rocks, and spears with makeshift barricades, suggests words and more 'civilized' approaches have not been very productive.

Praying for peace is laudable, but at what point does the shepherd protect the flock from the wolves?

 

[lsiberian]

When the existing government looks to control internet access and radio stations, mounts billboard campaigns that encourage people to report the wrong types of websites, just what is it that you're praying for? For people who are willing to face overwhelming force and certain death armed with slingshots, rocks, and spears with makeshift barricades, suggests words and more 'civilized' approaches have not been very productive.

Praying for peace is laudable, but at what point does the shepherd protect the flock from the wolves?

Peace is the best solution. Peaceful resolution is the best approach and peaceful dialogue is the answer. An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

 

[Chu Gai]

I admire your sentiments, Isiberian, but the 'eye for an eye' is a bit worn as a cliche and often speaks to an idealistic scenario that has no hopes of existing. There could be no peaceful resolution for the rise to power of Hitler. There was no peaceful resolution that could've avoided the American or French revolutions. You bemoan the loss of life and violence but sometimes that's necessary in order to achieve what hopefully will be a more just one. The lack of a temporary peace may well be preferable to a life of injustice. Those there who are obviously facing vastly superior odds appear willing to put their lives up. Maybe they deserve to be heard by the world and admired for what may well be the final sacrifice they are prepared to make. There are many ways to achieve peace unfortunately some lead to slavery.

 

[lsiberian]

I admire your sentiments, Isiberian, but the 'eye for an eye' is a bit worn as a cliche and often speaks to an idealistic scenario that has no hopes of existing. There could be no peaceful resolution for the rise to power of Hitler. There was no peaceful resolution that could've avoided the American or French revolutions. You bemoan the loss of life and violence but sometimes that's necessary in order to achieve what hopefully will be a more just one. The lack of a temporary peace may well be preferable to a life of injustice. Those there who are obviously facing vastly superior odds appear willing to put their lives up. Maybe they deserve to be heard by the world and admired for what may well be the final sacrifice they are prepared to make. There are many ways to achieve peace unfortunately some lead to slavery.

I can't ever advocate violence. War destroys everyone. Sometimes it seems to be the least of the evils we can undertake, but that doesn't change the fact that war is terrible. Just look at what it's done to many of our troops.

However this specific situation came about when a corrupt politician who was run out of town for using his power to pay himself decided to insight the violence. He has stated his desire for a civil war when he was ousted for corruption that would make Tom Delay look like a saint. He's praying on the poor and using them for cannon fodder.

 

[Chu Gai]

I can't ever advocate violence. War destroys everyone. Sometimes it seems to be the least of the evils we can undertake, but that doesn't change the fact that war is terrible. Just look at what it's done to many of our troops.

Of course war is terrible but that doesn't mean it is without merit. The bible that I presume forms the cornerstone of your faith is replete with violence.

However this specific situation came about when a corrupt politician who was run out of town for using his power to pay himself decided to insight the violence. He has stated his desire for a civil war when he was ousted for corruption that would make Tom Delay look like a saint. He's praying on the poor and using them for cannon fodder.

For a person who has stated to have done missionary work in Thailand, your view is overly simplistic (pro and anti government factions) begging the question in my mind, just who did you minister to?

Thai politics have always involved corruption to various degrees. The man you call corrupt and preying on the poor, Thaksin, was freely elected Prime Minister by an overwhelming majority (around 2/3) of the voters in 2005. Now, that doesn't mean that freely elected people can't personally take advantage of their position. It also doesn't mean that the military coup that deposed him the following year and the subsequent government(s) that followed also haven't taken advantage of their present situation. Thaksin's party was dissolved, the junta annulled the Constitution, wrote a new one, and increased the military budget substantially. Even though a large amount of members of parliament were banned from politics, a subsequent election still saw the election of individuals predisposed to Thaksin. However, the leadership refused to acknowledge the results. Through all of this, you've got the monarchy looking to excercise its influence where it deems appropriate.

Time.com had this to say about the revolt.

The scene: A dinner party in a Bangkok penthouse, silverware clinking on fine China, various foams and reductions tickling cultured palates. An out-of-town guest turns to a Thai man and asks about the red-shirted protesters calling for the government's downfall. "Who supports the red shirts?" asks the foreigner, trying to understand the years-long standoff between the red shirts and the pro-government yellow shirts. "No one," replies the Thai, dismissively, sniffing a fine Bordeaux. Then, as an afterthought, he adds, "Well, except for the poor."

Isiberian, I realize this very abbreviated post in no way constitutes a synopsis. I also realize this story can be told from different viewpoints with a multitude of interpretations. I frankly don't know where the ultimate truth lies. What does seem apparent is that Thai politics has been a mess for many years. There's more than enough corruption to go around with the trafficking in sex and drugs for every side including the police and military. Buddist monks even take to the streets. There are struggles among those looking to maintain a feudal system with those who look to obliterate it. No amount of praying or hoping by the every person in the world is going to have an effect on the problems which often spill over into violence. Reasonable men may well be able to come to peaceful solutions but when power and self interests are at stake, reason becomes self-serving. This won't be end of confrontation, violent clashes, and deaths. That's just the way things work.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I was in Phuket in '06 (?), I remember the newspaper showing the tanks during the coup. Their currency fell by like 50% that day.

 

[lsiberian]

No amount of praying or hoping by the every person in the world is going to have an effect on the problems which often spill over into violence.

It seems you are wrong this time. The violence has subsided.

 

[yepimonfire]

Beware of religion

I can't ever advocate violence. War destroys everyone. Sometimes it seems to be the least of the evils we can undertake, but that doesn't change the fact that war is terrible. Just look at what it's done to many of our troops.

However this specific situation came about when a corrupt politician who was run out of town for using his power to pay himself decided to insight the violence. He has stated his desire for a civil war when he was ousted for corruption that would make Tom Delay look like a saint. He's praying on the poor and using them for cannon fodder.

war is a terrible thing, and unfortunatley sometimes it is necessary, this is one of the hardest things to decide as far as being a christian goes (no no no im not attempting to start a religious debate, if you have an issue with my post, then kindly ignore it) war or no war? what is right? which is worse, let an evil man kill your entire family or kill the evil man and preserve your obviously innocent family? its a hard thing to decide i guess and sometimes i dont know what is right as far as it goes. in a world where people were not evil and did not run first at evil things, peaceful resolution is possible, but this world doesent work that way because people are a bunch of greedy, prideful snobs, who are quick to shed blood.

until this "chapter" of things is over, this is just how it has to be, this is not to say individuals cant make a difference though.

 

[Matt34]

I talked to my dad about this yesterday and he said they are some of the nicest, proudest people you'll ever meet but they take their freedoms very seriously. He said they will not sit idle while a government chips away at their rights.

 

[lsiberian]

The ousted guy was a butcher and was on his way to being the next dictator in SE Asia. He had hundreds slaughtered under the guise of drugs in the south. The last thing we need is another Burma or worse.

One of the problems is that translating Thai to English is extremely difficult. Very few people can speak both languages well enough to make a good translation of it. But make no mistake his ouster was the right move in the eyes of the people I've corresponded with.

I realize some of you may find it naive to call for peace, but Thailand is one of the most peaceful places I've been. Especially in Bangkok.

The protest would have be smashed on the first day here. They would have used tasers, rubber bullets, and tear gas to clear the crowd. Instead the army showed incredible restraint. This was the nicest area of the entire city. Imagine if some group did this in Times Square.

 

[Chu Gai]

It seems you are wrong this time. The violence has subsided.

And that was because of prayers? Might as well say that prayers resulted in the violence too, no?

The ousted guy was a butcher and was on his way to being the next dictator in SE Asia. He had hundreds slaughtered under the guise of drugs in the south. The last thing we need is another Burma or worse.

The history of Thailand indicates that no leader stays in power very long so I rather doubt that under the best of circumstances he could have attained dictatorial powers. The military and the feckless monarchy sees to that.

Thailand has a problem with amphetamines and I have no doubt drug dealers as well as people unrelated were targeted. That's definitely unfortunate but considering that politicians, the police, and the military have had their hands in the drug trade as well as underage prostitution for as long as anyone can remember, are things better before and after Thaksin's brief time in power? Is this the peace you prayed for?

One of the problems is that translating Thai to English is extremely difficult. Very few people can speak both languages well enough to make a good translation of it. But make no mistake his ouster was the right move in the eyes of the people I've corresponded with.

All that suggests is that you're corresponding with the 1/3 of the population that didn't support Thaksin.

I realize some of you may find it naive to call for peace, but Thailand is one of the most peaceful places I've been. Especially in Bangkok.

Having it otherwise is bad for business and foreign investment. The peace you want is for people to know their places and STFU. It's a surface peace that hides the unresolved problems and allows them to grow and fester.

The protest would have be smashed on the first day here. They would have used tasers, rubber bullets, and tear gas to clear the crowd. Instead the army showed incredible restraint. This was the nicest area of the entire city. Imagine if some group did this in Times Square.

I think it was called the American Revolution.

 

[lsiberian]

And that was because of prayers? Might as well say that prayers resulted in the violence too, no?
The history of Thailand indicates that no leader stays in power very long so I rather doubt that under the best of circumstances he could have attained dictatorial powers. The military and the feckless monarchy sees to that.

Thailand has a problem with amphetamines and I have no doubt drug dealers as well as people unrelated were targeted. That's definitely unfortunate but considering that politicians, the police, and the military have had their hands in the drug trade as well as underage prostitution for as long as anyone can remember, are things better before and after Thaksin's brief time in power? Is this the peace you prayed for?

All that suggests is that you're corresponding with the 1/3 of the population that didn't support Thaksin.

Having it otherwise is bad for business and foreign investment. The peace you want is for people to know their places and STFU. It's a surface peace that hides the unresolved problems and allows them to grow and fester.

I think it was called the American Revolution.

I can tell you that prayer works and is effective in changing things. People don't need prayer to start violence because we in our corrupted nature naturally practice it. I have no doubt God intervenes when asked. Before I knew him my life was a disaster and now it's amazing. I don't have all the answers, but I don't need too because I trust his plan.

As far as nonviolence not working. What about Jesus, Martin Luther King, and Ghandi? All 3 are well known and all 3 advocated non-violence. All 3 were successful. Nelson Mandela used this approach.

 

[Chu Gai]

What happened here then with respect to prayer?

I have no problem with MLK, Ghandi, etc. in their approaches to effect change. What's your position with respect to the purported flood brought about by God that wiped out the majority of life in the world? Or the plagues and deaths visited upon Egypt? Destruction of all life in Sodom & Gomorrah? Prayers didn't stop 6 million from meeting their maker.

So, now there'll be a bit of quiet. Peace. But it'll be a peace that masks the underlying problems that exist and when elections are held again, what will happen if those that run are predisposed to the 'Red shirt' view? Will the results of democratically elected individuals be subject once again to review so only the right ones attain office?

 

[jamie2112]

I like turtles and peace brother.

 

[yepimonfire]

What happened here then with respect to prayer?

I have no problem with MLK, Ghandi, etc. in their approaches to effect change. What's your position with respect to the purported flood brought about by God that wiped out the majority of life in the world? Or the plagues and deaths visited upon Egypt? Destruction of all life in Sodom & Gomorrah? Prayers didn't stop 6 million from meeting their maker.

So, now there'll be a bit of quiet. Peace. But it'll be a peace that masks the underlying problems that exist and when elections are held again, what will happen if those that run are predisposed to the 'Red shirt' view? Will the results of democratically elected individuals be subject once again to review so only the right ones attain office?

this thread was not created to be a religious debate and if im not mistaken, thats against the rules here, i will PM you with a response to this post however.

 

[mike c]

it's either pray for thailand or get out of this thread