please help with speaker/sub set choices

[mike c]

i am currently using a yamaha rx-v640 (85w x 6 RMS) on a JBL SCS 150 (HT in a box) the 5 pieces satellites are 10-100 watts recommended power and the sub is 150 watts RMS

since i am renovating the living room, i want to upgrade the speakers and amps (move the old setup to my bedroom)

im still looking at yamaha amps
but am dumbfounded at the jbl northridge bookshelf/floor standing speakers
1) the speakers are rated at a mere 40-60 watts nominal when the yamaha amps im looking at has 95-120w RMS
2) im looking for speakers that are "better" than my HT in a box set but not that far up in budget.
3) i dont live in the US so other brands you have might not be available here, and the fact ive tried JBL and had no problems with it ... im sticking to it again (although yamaha speakers are also available here)

please help!

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Welcome to the forum!

Where do you live?

If you have access to Yamaha speakers, can you get a pair of their towers comparitively priced to the Northridge? I would think they would match up better to a Yamaha receiver such as a 5890 or 1500. The NS 777's have dual binding posts, weigh in at almost 54lbs, and handle 100 watts continuous from a receiver.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/speakers/NS_777.htm

I think the NS 777's are a better value than JBL's similar offering in the E90 (judging by the msrp's). The JBL's will handle 110 watts continuous from a receiver, weigh in at 48lbs, and also have dual binding posts. The JBL's are more sensitive, but doesn't necessarily mean they'll sound better than the Yamaha's.
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.asp?ProdId=E90&SerId=NRE&sCatId=

 

[Takeereasy]

Are you sure I can't talk you out of returning to JBL? You can get significant improvement while spending equal or even less money. What country do you live in? If it is Canada then I've got a great deal for you. Athena has a setup on for $329 at futureshop.ca that is a fantastic deal. No sub but that is a seperate matter anyway. Let me know if you live in Canada, if you do I could offer more ideas if you want. I'm thinking it is Canada because JBL and Yamaha sounds like Futureshop or Best Buy to me. What Yamaha amp is it? What price are you being quoted and what are you looking to spend for the amp and speakers? Those answers will be a big help.

 

[mike c]

thanks for the replies

i live in the Philippines.

Buckeyefan1:

first off, can you help me understand how the setup works ...
meaning: if an amp is rated at 95w X 7, does that mean all the channels i buy should be around that rating? because most of the surround channels are only 40-60 watts RMS ... i understand that it will work but that i shouldnt crank up the amp volume ... but the front speakers will be able to take it and the other channels wont?

takeereasy:

im not really the audiophile and am even very satisfied with the current JBL's performance. so a slight improvement is already enough for me (of course price is a limiting factor) the "improvement" im looking for is the "fullness" of sound that comes from a wooden speaker box vs. the plastic casing of my current speakers. also, my current center channel is easily overwhelmed by the other channels (thus making understanding the dialogue harder)

 

[mike c]

its me again with another set of questions: sorry but i have no one to ask re: these things

whats the difference if i buy channels that are 3 way or 2 way?
i mean what sound does the midrange produce?
so should i look for 2 ways with a big sub or 3 ways with a so-so sub?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Buckeyefan1:

first off, can you help me understand how the setup works ...
meaning: if an amp is rated at 95w X 7, does that mean all the channels i buy should be around that rating? because most of the surround channels are only 40-60 watts RMS ... i understand that it will work but that i shouldnt crank up the amp volume ... but the front speakers will be able to take it and the other channels wont?

There's a lot more to watts than you think. Todays amps are severly overrated. A 95 watt system probalby puts out 45 clean watts to your speakers. 45 clean watts is a lot. Speakers will handle x amt. of watts, but they can dictate how a receiver translates those watts. A speaker is rated by sensitivity levels, or sound pressure. The higher the number, the more efficient the speaker is in reproducing the signal. A low spl of 88dB on a speaker (channel) compared to a high spl of 94dB means you'll need twice the power in your receiver/amp to equal the loudness of the 94dB speaker. Also keep in mind the ohm rating. An 8 ohm speaker plays louder than a 6 ohm speaker, with the same spl rating. Highly sensitive speakers don't require a flagship amp/receiver to be driven. Very low sensitive speakers either require a beefier amp/receiver, or typically a HTIB system that needs to protect the little satellites from disaster. I'm trying to put this in laymens terms. Does that make sense?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

whats the difference if i buy channels that are 3 way or 2 way?
i mean what sound does the midrange produce?
so should i look for 2 ways with a big sub or 3 ways with a so-so sub

3 way speakers have a two way crossover, meaning there's a cutoff for the tweeter, midrange, and woofer. 2 way speakers have a one way crossover, splitting the woofer and tweeter. The midrange produces the all important voice. You don't see too many two way designs any longer, since most of todays speakers use woofers smaller than 8" which can produce the midrange. The tweeters usually pick up around 1700 to 2200 hertz, which is the higher end of the midrange scale.

Don't slack on the sub. Even dual 8" woofers won't make up for a solid 12" subwoofer. Those Yamaha NS 777's are probably fine without a sub for music, but there's no substitute for a solid sub with dvd's.

 

[mike c]

buckeyefan1,

thanks for the explanation, lets use actual examples to check if i understand ...
assuming we use the rxv1500 amp
and the yamaha set 777, 555, 333, 444

1) the 1500 has a max of 170w x 7 ; a nominal of 120 x 7 ; and a clean wattage of around 50?
2) since the 1500 churns out the above wattages at 8 ohms and the yamaha speaker set receives 6 ohms at 100 watts except for the rear surround at 60w, so is this amp good for this set?
3) assuming the budget is a bit lower than how much this speaker set is... can i use the 555's as 2 front LR speakers? the 333's as rear LR? and the 444 as center?
4) btw, isnt there a rear center channel?

 

[mike c]

more theoretical questions ...

would you say that 1 on 1 the NS333's are better than my existing SCS150 satellite?

the 333's are 6ohms with 5" woofer and a 1" tweeter (87db ; .283V/ 1 M)
the 150 sats are 8ohms with 3" midrange and a 1/2" tweeter (88db ; 1w / 1 M)

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

buckeyefan1,

thanks for the explanation, lets use actual examples to check if i understand ...
assuming we use the rxv1500 amp
and the yamaha set 777, 555, 333, 444

1) the 1500 has a max of 170w x 7 ; a nominal of 120 x 7 ; and a clean wattage of around 50?

If driving 7 channels, yes. If only driving two channels, you should get 120x2. That wattage is measured in milliseconds. The power supplies in these receivers could never put out that type of wattage for more than a second. In surround mode, the other 5 channels do not receiver the same loaded signal from the amp, therefore are not required to output as much as the two main speakers. The center channel actually does the most work with movies. In stereo, the front channels are your workhorses.

2) since the 1500 churns out the above wattages at 8 ohms and the yamaha speaker set receives 6 ohms at 100 watts except for the rear surround at 60w, so is this amp good for this set?

IMO, it's perfect.

3) assuming the budget is a bit lower than how much this speaker set is... can i use the 555's as 2 front LR speakers? the 333's as rear LR? and the 444 as center?

Absolutely.

4) btw, isnt there a rear center channel?

That would be a 6.1 setup. Two rears would be 7.1. The Yamaha 1500 can handle 5.1/6.1 and 7.1.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

more theoretical questions ...

would you say that 1 on 1 the NS333's are better than my existing SCS150 satellite?

the 333's are 6ohms with 5" woofer and a 1" tweeter (87db ; .283V/ 1 M)
the 150 sats are 8ohms with 3" midrange and a 1/2" tweeter (88db ; 1w / 1 M)

Much much better. No comparison. You'll shed tears comparing the two sets.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/speakers/speakers_NSsystems.htm

 

[mike c]

Much much better. No comparison. You'll shed tears comparing the two sets.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/speakers/speakers_NSsystems.htm

hehe. a thousand lightbulbs just lit up. to confirm that im talking about 6 pieces of 333's and not the yamaha set in the link consisting of the 777s, 555s, 333s, and the 444s

6 pieces of 333's (all the same) as FRONT: left center rght and the same for the rear ... for this setup what amp would you recommend?

p.s. i will of course change the front center to a 444

 

[mike c]

two rears?
1) front left
2) center
3) front right
4) rear left
5) rear right
6) ?
7) ?

i've always thought that 6 and 7 was just like in movie theaters where there are speakers directly to the left and to the right.
so 6) LEFT 7) RIGHT

p.s. i understand that this is a real dummy question (please bear with me)

 

[mike c]

by looking at this
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/prod_images/rxv657_05.jpg

for 6.1
does that mean i would install the rear center channel at the lower right surround back where it says "single"?

 

[mike c]

another theoretical question for a future home theater setup ...
not counting the budget ...
do you think its stupid to use 777's on ALL channels? i mean, is it useless to use the 777's on the surround for example?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

by looking at this
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/prod_images/rxv657_05.jpg

for 6.1
does that mean i would install the rear center channel at the lower right surround back where it says "single"?

The 6th channel would go rear center, opposite the front center channel in a 6.1. The 6th and 7th channel would go in the rear center (a few feet apart) - say behind a couch on stands.

The 777's would be too much for the amp to handle. Two are adequate. All 333's and one center (or two in a 6.1) on stands would work great with a very good 12" sub.

 

[mike c]

if i were to use the 444's as front center ...
should i also use a 444 for the rear center? or will a 333 work fine?

 

[mike c]

ok, i found suppliers for the yamaha series and its only a little off budget. but something im going to make happen.

its the 444 center, 555 for LR front, two pairs of 333's for the rear
and a 515 or 315 sub

here's my problem, i didnt expect the speaker wires to be that big, i embedded a 1/2" pvc pipe for the rear speakers (thats 4)

1) what gauge should i use? or whatever term you use but the choices are 12, 14 and 16. 12 cable is 5mm thick and 15mm wide (definitely not fitting the 1/2" pvc pipe)

to be continued

 

[mike c]

another matter:

they even have a set of the speakers (same as above) with amp and sub with installment.

the problem is the speakers are "piano" black finish
the included sub is 515 cherry finish

they said i can downgrade to a 315 "ordinary" black finish

1) whats the difference between the 515 or 315?
2) also, if you were to pick a yamaha amp how many RMS watts per channel
would you want? (we cant talk models because ours are a bit behind)

p.s. 444 center
555s left and right front
333s left and right surround
333s left and right rear center
515 or 315 sub

 

[jaxvon]

From what I can tell, the subs are almost itdentical, except the 515 looks like it has 20 watts more power (but that's peak, so it's useless). I would say go for the 315.

As far as amp power goes, find something with at least 100wpc, if not more.