Pioneer Sc-05 or VSX 23, or what for under 1000USD?

[goldorak]

Hi Guys,

I am new to the AV receivers world, i was few weeks ago considering the elite sc-05 as I read impressive things about it on the internet. I cannot really have the opporunity to test the receiver as i am not in the USA and traveling soon there to receive the AV receiver i am going to choose via online shopping.
Where i live, the receivers available are not of wide variety and rare to be found, so testing is not an easy option. I am considering as well buying the energy take classic speakers with a ESW-v10 subwoofer for my 1600 cubic feet room. Now i have put a 1000 USD limit for my AV receiver, and recently i have seen that pioneer released their new models such as the sc-25 and vsx23, the sc-25 is above my price limit, but the vsx23 seems in that range and seems to have more video options and new features, but hek i am not that knoledgeable about them a lot.

So my question would be, what is your advice regarding this? is the vsx23 a better choice or should i stick with the sc-05? any recommendations where i can buy from the internet? my limitation is that not all sites accept international credit cards, so i am limited to sites like amazon.

So PLEASE any recommendations? alternative receivers for the price range? however keep in mind that i am a little leaning to the ICE power thing, seems a nice feature on paper and the elite series are really nice in looks.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi goldorak,

I'll get the Pioneer Elite SC-05, because it's at a much better deal right now than the new Pioneer Elite models.
The SC-05 is selling for less than $690 USA (free shipping).
* Check 4ElectronicWarehouse. And maybe J&R Music. Perhaps Vann's Electronics.
Also have a look at Videogon for those Pioneer Elite receivers.
Might be also worth checking at Hi-Fi Heaven, and 6th Avenue Electronics.

Just few days ago, the Pioneer Elite SC-05 (refurb) was selling for $689.00, with free shipping. One of the places that I gave you here just above, should have it for that price.
Now, it's up to you to look for it, as you got few places to check.

Good luck & Happy purchase deal,
Bob

 

[rnatalli]

I would have budgeted more for speakers and less for the receiver. But to answer your originally question, I like the Pioneer SC-05 for under $1,000.

 

[goldorak]

Thanks guys for the help. As i mentioned, i am traveling to the USA in september, so i will be transferring the Audio stuff with me back on the airplane, thus having One 40 lb receiver, one 36lb woofer (ESW v10) and one computer case, and the energy take satellites will make my weight a little bit too high. Thus i chose the energy take satellites instead of larger speakers, moreover i will put them in the living room, so i need nice small speakers and i heard good reviews of them.

Since i got the ESWv10 a 300 Watts rms sub, i can always upgrade satellites later on. As for the sc-05 i do like it, and most probably i will get from amazon (925 USD) as they take non american credit cards, i couldnt find the sc-05 at a cheaper price except at ibuydigital (769 USD) but i didnt hear good reviews about them and i will need to use other then the credit card way to buy from them. and regarding the refurbished ones, i didnt find one in the shops mentioned earlier (4ElectronicWarehouse and others). And i prefer to get it new because i might not have time to even test it as i will be in the hotel.

Now back to the sc-05, it is now almost at the same price as the new vsx23, is the vsx23 better as it has more video options? or better go with the better sound of the sc-05? i feel i should get a better deal on it but i am running out of time, i can wait for a max of 10 days then i need to order so that i dont get delivery delay problems.

 

[goldorak]

Discovered a voltage frequency problem

Hi Guys,

I have just discovered from the pics of the receivers in the US that the voltage is only 120 volts 60 Hz, and the electricity in my country is 220 volts 50 Hz. the voltage problem is not big, i can put an external tranformer, but the frequency problem might be difficult. Any solution? recommendations?

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi Guys,

I have just discovered from the pics of the receivers in the US that the voltage is only 120 volts 60 Hz, and the electricity in my country is 220 volts 50 Hz. the voltage problem is not big, i can put an external tranformer, but the frequency problem might be difficult. Any solution? recommendations?

That could be a problem.
We need TLS Guy or perhaps highfigh for that one.
Hopefully they'll read this thread.

...I just checked, TLS Guy is not on line right now, but highfigh is.
Mtrycrafts is another person that might be able to bring some light into this.

-> Just be patient, I'll see what I can do to help you faster.

Bob

 

[highfigh]

Hi Guys,

I have just discovered from the pics of the receivers in the US that the voltage is only 120 volts 60 Hz, and the electricity in my country is 220 volts 50 Hz. the voltage problem is not big, i can put an external tranformer, but the frequency problem might be difficult. Any solution? recommendations?

What country wil it be going to? You really would be better off finding something that's designed for that voltage and frequency. Devices exist for converting but they would take away a good amount of you budget.

 

[Lordoftherings]

What country wil it be going to? You really would be better off finding something that's designed for that voltage and frequency. Devices exist for converting but they would take away a good amount of you budget.

That's what I thought, but was not sure. True, it would cost him too much to convert into the voltage of his country.

* My guess is that he's from the UK, where the voltage is 220 Volts. And yes, at 50hz, instead of 60hz here.

 

[goldorak]

More info for the frequency problem and other here

Thanks Lordoftherings and highfigh for the answers.

Well i am an electrical engineer but not working in the electrical field for the time. I do know that there is no big problem in stepping down the voltage via a transformer, and the transformer price (like 500 Watts, 220 volts to 120 volts) is not going to be significant for the price of the pioneer sc-05. I live in Lebanon, don’t worry it is a nice place once there are no idiots making wars so the prices here of receivers are ridiculous because there is no high demand, so you might get a 3 years old receiver for the price of a new receiver in the US. For example i have seen few days ago the onkyo 505 or 506!! i think 505 being sold for 750 USD, and i know the price in the US is possibly 200 something. Now for the pioneer, if i am lucky to find it where i live, it might be sold (as i predict) for at least 2000 USD if i am luckky but did not check. Now the ultimate way to change the frequency and voltage together is to use an online UPS which converts both voltage and frequency to the desired US standards but that would be a good cost of around 350 to 500 USD (assumption).

Theoretically, if the power supply of the receiver is transforming AC to DC which should be the case for most electronics, it won’t be a problem to make the SC-05 work on 50 HZ, its internal transformer might slightly overheat if I am running the receiver at full power. However i am not sure if this theory will apply and I am afraid I might get any noise interference but nevertheless it is unlikely, but can’t be sure!!! noise on the receiver isnt what i would like for audio

I was checking other receivers' brands to see if they sell dual voltage or more important dual frequency(50 60), they dont put that on the manuals or back of the receiver, but it might work as usually the designs take care of fluctuations. Dunno!!! Most electronics in my country are either 120 to240 volts automatic, or at least switchable, and most are dual frequency.

I might go for it and buy the juicy receiver. I mean i might only use it once in a while but i just love electronics. I mean do you save for a new house or buy an HDTV and sound system? the answer is: you know what the answer is. in worst cases, if it didnt work, i can then opt for an online UPS, as long as the receiver doeesnt get ruined

I have read Lordoftherings in other posts that you recommend the onlyo 876, i mean it is lovely but i got attracted to the sc-05 and it seems it runs cooler and better power efficiency (so less power bill if i am using it a lot) or what do you think?

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi goldorak,

You are right, there are some amps and receivers that allow you (by a small rear switch) to change the voltage from 120 to 220 volts, from the voltage selector. Some even have another special switch that permits you to change the 60hz running rate to 50hz. But usually, just changing the voltage, automatically adjust the running rate (Hz).
I've seen some Yamaha model receivers like that in the past, cannot remember the exact model # though.
Also, some brand of receivers allow you to change their voltage and running frequency rate, by removing their top cover, and then switch to the appropriate voltage by an internal slider or switch.

* Table of general power supply:
1. U.S.A. & Canada: AC 120V/60 Hz
2. Singapore: AC 230V/50 Hz
3. Australia: AC 240V/50 Hz
4. General: AC 110/120/220/240V 60/50 Hz

Yours applies to #4 (General: 220V/50 Hz).

* Some multi-voltage models (Pioneer receivers included), are provided with these switches. But U.S., Canadian, European, U.K., and Australian models are not generally provided with these switches.
And the ones that do provided them (two) are the type that have a slider switch, with one side at 110V,120V-127V, and the other side of the slider at 220V,240V. Then you have another switch, where you need to use a screwdriver, and turn it to the same position as the slider switch, which is 220V-110V-120V~127V-240V.

** I know that I do have some components at home with these type of switches, but I just cannot remember which ones.

>>> Now, you finally ask me about the Onkyo TX-SR876 (which I own),
vs. the Pioneer Elite SC-05.
Well, goldorak, if you've been reading some of my previous posts from other threads, you already know my answer. I did mentioned it several times, actually make this, multiple times, in various threads.
Briefly, the 876 is a true power house, with all the features that your heart can wish for.
The SC-05 is a very nice looking receiver, also an excellent value for it's heavily discounted price. But ultimatly it simply does not reach the same goals than what the TX-SR876 was built for.

My best regards to you & say Hi to your family & friends in Lebanon from me,
Bob

 

[goldorak]

Thanks Lordoftherings. well it seems i have to live with getting a receiver with 60 Hz and run it at 50 Hz because until now while searching amongst pioneer, onkyo the frequency is set at 60. I have emailed pioneer to ask if it works with 50, no reply since yesterday. I will check yamaha although i prefer pioneer, onkyo, denon.

I will check the Onkyo TX-SR876 more, however the price is still high where i can buy (i.e. amazon) as i am leaning to a more trusted seller and prefer a new item. But still i will check it. I think it has more features in outputs and video but is it better in audio quality then the pioneer? i dont really think that, but never heard either of them so i cannot judge. now i have an hdmi 1080i dvd player, an htpc through hdmi, and a DVB-C TV receiver (through components or s-video) that i will connect to the receiver, so i really will not need upscaling for example at the hdmi level. I might make use of a second hdmi out in the future though not a priority. Let me drool on the Onkyo for a while and see. Nevertheless, i think the looks of the pioneer has some value when it comes to bragging in front of the friends and wife I am connecting the receiver to a sony bravia 40 inch x series. Now yesterday i as well have seen that the pioneer will upscale to 1080p/60Hz, so as well i thought would that make a problem?, my htpc (equipped with blue ray drive) is giving 1920-1080 resolution at 60 Hz, so i think it should work!!! And moreover, if i pass a signal that is 1080i from my LG dvd player is it at 50 Hz (of course not based on electricity but i mean due to different standards between US and International)? and would the pioneer pass it through normally and decode the audio? all these questions are coming into my mind before my first considerably "pro" receiver buy

 

[Lordoftherings]

Well goldorak, you can say all you want about reconditioned audio components,
but when it comes right down to it, it is actually better than a brand new unit.

I did mentioned that before. I'll say it again; with a reconditioned receiver like the
Onkyo TX-SR876, you're almost assured that it will be updated to the latest firmware update, and that it would have been inspected, so it is running and operating perfectly sounds.
Plus you cannot tell at all that it is a refurb. Only by the sticker, that's it.
You just cannot say the same with a brand new one.

And now, for 'la piece de resistance'...

@ http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR876BLK/Onkyo/TX-SR876-7.1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver-black/1.html

Review: @ http://www.avguide.com/review/tested-onkyo-tx-sr876-thx-ultra2-plus-certified-71-channel-av-receiver

If you can make this beast work in Lebanon, your family and friends will certainly be
BLOWN AWAY by the pure unleashed POWER HELL, and by the intense RUSH of the flowing audio soundtracks from Blu-ray movies, plus the cheer exuberance reflecting in the faces of all listeners present in your room of your house. This, my friend, you can count on.
And you'd better be a very strong fellow, because that packaged box weights a very healthy 28.5 kilos, or 62.75 pounds.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to some other threads.

You have my very best regards sir,
Bob

 

[goldorak]

Thanks Lordoftherings. To be honest i dont mind factory reconditioned items. I was only commenting that some of the online shops might not accept international cards and that i needed a trusted shop. the one you have put seems fine and the price is really tempting As for my lean towards the sc-05 it is just because of the fact that i see the looks on net, i dont have means of testing or listening to any of the two receivers. But i am genuinly considering the onkyo now for the reconditioned price, very tempting

My only (uneducated question), is there a big difference if it is not Class D Ice power amplifier, or non noted, or possibly it is even better in the case of the onkyo? is Audissey better then MCCAC? i am really not knowledgeable of these at all? does the onkyo overheat since you have one?

regards and hope am not bothering you.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Thanks Lordoftherings. To be honest i dont mind factory reconditioned items. I was only commenting that some of the online shops might not accept international cards and that i needed a trusted shop. the one you have put seems fine and the price is really tempting As for my lean towards the sc-05 it is just because of the fact that i see the looks on net, i dont have means of testing or listening to any of the two receivers. But i am genuinly considering the onkyo now for the reconditioned price, very tempting

My only (uneducated question), is there a big difference if it is not Class D Ice power amplifier, or non noted, or possibly it is even better in the case of the onkyo? is Audissey better then MCCAC? i am really not knowledgeable of these at all? does the onkyo overheat since you have one?

regards and hope am not bothering you.

Sorry for being late, I was very busy preparing for the Himalayas.

You certainly not bothering me.
My opinion is that the 876 is more powerful and more extended than the SC-05.
I'm just not a fan of ICE power.

And for me, Audyssey MultEQ XT is more advanced than MCACC. But that's just me. It is a more sophisticated room EQ.
My Onkyo 876 does get hot, but not to the point of bothering me, just nice and warm in the winter.

Regards,
Bob

 

[goldorak]

Finally, chosen a receiver

I finally pulled the trigger on choosing a receiver. Couldn’t get great deals as most of the online shops only deal with USA credit cards. So I went for amazon.com that accepts non usa cards, which was not the best deal and I have pulled the trigger on...................suspense ............ the Pioneer Elite SC-07 and after struggling with two different credit cards, one worked and the item is on its way to the Hotel I am staying in. Got to wait for 2 weeks though till I am there.

I hope I don’t get a defective item since I really don’t have any time to send it back and forth to amazon. But nevertheless I think I need to test it, but how? I mean setting it up in the hotel room etc might be a hassle although I will hopefully have the speakers there as well. Energy ESW-v10 sub and energy take 5 speakers. I might at least connect them with short wires to test the thing. But I don’t have a DVD player etc... might take a small old portable iriver cd/mp3 player and test analogue inputs of the receiver (2 at a time) at least and the fm tuner!!!! any thoughts for fast hotel based testing?? i need to connect the receiver to the tv somehow to see the menu!!!

 

[bnewt]

In an earlier post, someone mentioned that the SC05 & I assume 07 were better buys than the newest models, 25 & 27. Would anyone care to elaborate as to why? Is it solely based on price? Along with these Pioneer units, I am also considering the Onkyo's but am very concerned about how warm they run, as well as the Denon 3310CI or 4308CI. Anyone care to chime in on their opinions, please do so.

 

[Superfly]

my guess would be on the pricing that the older model have right now.
The newer ones have a higher price.

I wouldn't be concerned about how warm they are running as long as you have proper ventilation above and to the side.

 

[shooter313]

I just placed my order for a VSX23 today though Amazon. I have had 3 Onkyos in the past. I never had any problems with the first two, but the third one that I have had for just under 2 years now shuts off about every 10 to 15 min when watching movies with lots of action in them. It just over heats and shuts down. I have it on a OPEN shelf, and my viewing room stays at 65 degrees summer and winter alike. My others always ran hot, but they never gave me this kind of problem before. I pulled the cover to make sure dust was not the problem, it was clean as a whistle, the fan works..so I dropped it off at the local hi-fi repair shop. They said there was no reason for it to over heat the way it is doing, so they could not repair it.
I will not buy onkyo again. But that is just my opinion.
Good luck with your choice.

 

[shooter313]

I didnt get the model 23, the stock was depleated by the time my order was in. So I decided to go with the model 27 instead. A lot more features but a lot more money as well. I hope it holds up in the long run to make up for it.
I will let you know how it works out when it gets here and I get it all connected.

 

[gazelle]

Bummer. ordered VSX23 yesterday.

Hi guys, my first post here.. I just ordered VSX-23THX yesterday for $690 from ABT.COM authorized pioneer dealer. (I heard thats important) But anyway, now I am reading this and seems like I made the wrong order? I am not a pro but VSX23 has 2 HDMI out and that was pretty much the reason I ordered that. And it was newer technology. Do ya'll think I need to send it back and order SC-05? and also I couldnt find SC-05 for the same price? where is it? If I choose to stay with VSX23 what will I be missing? I know ICE but what is ICE? we are not making pinacolada here ) Whats the big deal, please explain before its too late. Help me get the best one for the money. Thanks and I really appreciate it.